1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:02,293 --> 00:00:03,628 Should I-- Oh, yeah, tuck it in my shirt, maybe? 3 00:00:04,253 --> 00:00:05,338 Okay. 4 00:00:06,923 --> 00:00:08,257 Am I...Is this guy filming right now? 5 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 6 00:00:08,382 --> 00:00:09,800 -CAMERAMAN: Yeah. -Oh! Sure. 7 00:00:09,926 --> 00:00:11,594 [♪♪♪] 8 00:00:14,305 --> 00:00:16,224 [CAR HORN BLARING] 9 00:00:16,349 --> 00:00:17,975 I'm nervous for it too. 10 00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:19,894 Okay, before we start, you want me to answer 11 00:00:20,019 --> 00:00:22,355 in the form of a question or is your voice gonna be in it? 12 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,565 [HANDS CLAPPING] 13 00:00:24,690 --> 00:00:25,775 [CLAPPING] 14 00:00:26,526 --> 00:00:28,277 [CLAPPING] 15 00:00:28,402 --> 00:00:29,946 Is this showing? 16 00:00:30,071 --> 00:00:31,531 I'll...I'll put it on. 17 00:00:32,865 --> 00:00:34,200 Talk back the questions? 18 00:00:34,325 --> 00:00:36,077 Isn't this nice? It looks really good. 19 00:00:39,539 --> 00:00:42,166 Uh, the signal might interfere with the mic or no? 20 00:00:42,291 --> 00:00:44,377 [CRACKLING; INTERFERENCE] 21 00:00:44,502 --> 00:00:46,921 [LIVELY CHATTERING] 22 00:00:51,926 --> 00:00:53,594 [INDISTINCT CHANTING] 23 00:00:53,719 --> 00:00:55,555 [♪♪♪] 24 00:01:02,144 --> 00:01:03,271 MAN: Yes! 25 00:01:04,272 --> 00:01:06,482 [PUNK MUSIC PLAYING] 26 00:01:11,946 --> 00:01:14,407 [WIND HOWLING] 27 00:01:21,873 --> 00:01:23,374 [FOOTSTEPS] 28 00:01:29,046 --> 00:01:30,339 [FOOTSTEPS] 29 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,428 [FOOTSTEPS] 30 00:01:35,553 --> 00:01:37,221 [FOOTSTEPS] 31 00:01:37,346 --> 00:01:38,764 [WIND HOWLING] 32 00:01:38,890 --> 00:01:41,642 [FOOTSTEPS] 33 00:01:43,477 --> 00:01:46,772 [FOOTSTEPS] 34 00:01:48,357 --> 00:01:50,193 [DRUMS PLAYING RHYTHMICALLY] 35 00:01:52,069 --> 00:01:54,071 [PUNK MUSIC PLAYING] 36 00:02:12,924 --> 00:02:14,926 [ELECTRIC GUITAR PLAYING] 37 00:02:45,581 --> 00:02:47,124 [PUNK MUSIC PLAYING] 38 00:04:56,212 --> 00:04:59,131 [BIRDS CHIRPING] 39 00:04:59,257 --> 00:05:01,008 BAGEL: You know, I think a lot of people 40 00:05:01,133 --> 00:05:02,760 don't know about the history of punk rock. 41 00:05:02,885 --> 00:05:04,554 MOBY: Really? I mean, I... 42 00:05:04,679 --> 00:05:07,723 Because I grew up with it, so... 43 00:05:07,849 --> 00:05:10,476 I know the history punk rock... 44 00:05:10,601 --> 00:05:13,521 really well, but you're right. That's kind of presumptuous... 45 00:05:13,646 --> 00:05:16,399 for me to assume that someone watching, 46 00:05:16,524 --> 00:05:18,401 especially if they're not old like me, 47 00:05:18,526 --> 00:05:21,195 would know the history of punk rock, so... 48 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:22,947 What do you think? What--What should we do? 49 00:05:23,072 --> 00:05:25,449 BAGEL: Well, can you tell me about it? 50 00:05:25,575 --> 00:05:27,243 Just now? You want me to just tell you... 51 00:05:27,368 --> 00:05:29,287 about the history of punk rock? 52 00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:31,539 -Right now? -BAGEL: Yeah. 53 00:05:31,664 --> 00:05:33,875 On this beautiful day, while we're just sitting here playing chess? 54 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,209 Sounds like a good time for it. 55 00:05:35,334 --> 00:05:37,170 Okay. 56 00:05:37,295 --> 00:05:39,255 Well... 57 00:05:39,380 --> 00:05:41,132 let's go way back. 58 00:05:44,594 --> 00:05:46,637 MOBY: In a way, you could argue 59 00:05:46,762 --> 00:05:50,850 that punk rock started in the '50s. 60 00:05:50,975 --> 00:05:53,769 You know, people like... Gene Vincent, 61 00:05:53,895 --> 00:05:55,438 even Little Richard liked that idea, 62 00:05:55,563 --> 00:05:57,690 like standing on stage... 63 00:05:57,815 --> 00:06:02,069 and just yelling and screaming. 64 00:06:02,195 --> 00:06:04,572 And then as the '60s progressed, 65 00:06:04,655 --> 00:06:08,117 there were some proto-punkers. 66 00:06:08,242 --> 00:06:12,163 But really, you can point to Iggy Pop. 67 00:06:12,288 --> 00:06:14,582 Iggy and the Stooges in Detroit. 68 00:06:14,707 --> 00:06:17,543 Iggy was the first punk rocker. 69 00:06:17,668 --> 00:06:19,670 Shirtless, cut up, 70 00:06:19,795 --> 00:06:22,798 screaming at the top of his lungs, stage diving, 71 00:06:22,924 --> 00:06:26,177 and his--and his lyrics were even very rebellious, 72 00:06:26,302 --> 00:06:28,679 like, personally rebellious. 73 00:06:28,804 --> 00:06:30,431 And then as the '70s progressed, 74 00:06:30,556 --> 00:06:31,933 you had the New York Dolls. 75 00:06:32,058 --> 00:06:33,476 And there were bands like the Ramones 76 00:06:33,601 --> 00:06:35,102 and The Dictators 77 00:06:35,228 --> 00:06:37,605 and Richard Hell and the Voidoids. 78 00:06:37,730 --> 00:06:39,440 And Malcolm McLaren, who managed 79 00:06:39,565 --> 00:06:41,150 the New York Dolls briefly, 80 00:06:41,275 --> 00:06:43,236 went from New York back to London 81 00:06:43,361 --> 00:06:47,156 and helped Steve Jones and Paul Cook 82 00:06:47,281 --> 00:06:48,991 and Johnny Rotten, 83 00:06:49,116 --> 00:06:50,826 and at the time, Glen Matlock, 84 00:06:50,952 --> 00:06:53,371 to start the Sex Pistols. 85 00:06:53,538 --> 00:06:55,248 And from the Sex Pistols, 86 00:06:55,373 --> 00:06:58,876 you got The Clash, the Buzzcocks, 87 00:06:59,001 --> 00:07:00,378 The Damned, 88 00:07:00,503 --> 00:07:01,963 X-Ray Spex... 89 00:07:02,088 --> 00:07:05,383 and U.K. punk was born. 90 00:07:05,508 --> 00:07:07,051 And it was very political, 91 00:07:07,176 --> 00:07:10,596 very rebellious, very energetic. 92 00:07:10,721 --> 00:07:12,390 And then from the U.K., 93 00:07:12,515 --> 00:07:14,892 U.K. Subs and The Damned 94 00:07:15,017 --> 00:07:16,352 came to the States 95 00:07:16,477 --> 00:07:19,105 and really inspired Ian MacKaye, 96 00:07:19,230 --> 00:07:20,648 Henry Rollins, 97 00:07:20,731 --> 00:07:22,817 the whole Dischord Records scene. 98 00:07:22,942 --> 00:07:27,113 And American punk was born in the, you know, 99 00:07:27,238 --> 00:07:28,656 the late '70s, early '80s, 100 00:07:28,781 --> 00:07:30,533 with the Bad Brains and Minor Threat. 101 00:07:30,658 --> 00:07:34,412 And they started playing punk that was so much faster, 102 00:07:34,537 --> 00:07:37,498 you know, twice as fast as U.K. punk. 103 00:07:37,623 --> 00:07:39,542 And very political 104 00:07:39,667 --> 00:07:41,627 and personal at the same time. 105 00:07:41,752 --> 00:07:44,172 When the punk rockers are yelling their lyrics, 106 00:07:44,297 --> 00:07:47,216 they're usually yelling, yelling at everything, 107 00:07:47,341 --> 00:07:48,968 they're yelling about their lives, 108 00:07:49,093 --> 00:07:52,847 they're yelling about the failures of the media, 109 00:07:52,972 --> 00:07:56,517 they're yelling about politics. 110 00:07:56,642 --> 00:07:59,645 And for the sake of the movie that we're making, 111 00:07:59,770 --> 00:08:02,148 they also yelled about animal rights. 112 00:08:04,609 --> 00:08:08,321 When you're a punk rocker, you question everything. 113 00:08:08,446 --> 00:08:10,823 You question politics, you question fashion, 114 00:08:10,948 --> 00:08:12,450 you question the music, 115 00:08:12,617 --> 00:08:15,661 but you also question food. 116 00:08:15,786 --> 00:08:17,788 And how it's produced and whether it's ethical, 117 00:08:17,914 --> 00:08:19,874 or whether it's aligned with your values. 118 00:08:19,999 --> 00:08:21,459 The people yelling on stage 119 00:08:21,626 --> 00:08:23,377 about politics, about their lives, 120 00:08:23,503 --> 00:08:25,505 about animal rights, would also be the ones 121 00:08:25,630 --> 00:08:28,132 in the audience singing along and jumping up and down. 122 00:08:28,257 --> 00:08:30,259 So it wasn't idol worship. 123 00:08:30,384 --> 00:08:34,222 It was this very egalitarian celebration 124 00:08:34,347 --> 00:08:37,308 of critical thinking and... 125 00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:41,687 really like a joyful celebration 126 00:08:41,812 --> 00:08:44,982 of having this great community. 127 00:08:45,107 --> 00:08:46,859 BAGEL: Good boy, Moby. Good boy. 128 00:08:54,742 --> 00:08:56,327 [PUNK ROCK PLAYING] 129 00:09:10,007 --> 00:09:12,260 Well, I think punk rock means something, you know. 130 00:09:12,385 --> 00:09:16,889 Um, it's not just, the, you know, 131 00:09:17,014 --> 00:09:19,767 two fingers to the establishment. 132 00:09:19,892 --> 00:09:22,478 CAPTAIN: Glam rock had kind of run its course 133 00:09:22,603 --> 00:09:25,773 and everything had gone a little bit country rock. 134 00:09:25,898 --> 00:09:28,150 There was Little Feat, Emmylou Harris, 135 00:09:28,276 --> 00:09:30,695 and all of these kind of cheesecloth shirt wearing, 136 00:09:30,820 --> 00:09:33,114 kind of, balding hippie guys, you know, 137 00:09:33,239 --> 00:09:36,158 who says, "Yeah, baby, ah, my dog just died," 138 00:09:36,284 --> 00:09:37,785 and all that sort of stuff. 139 00:09:37,910 --> 00:09:40,329 I don't know, it didn't speak to me. 140 00:09:41,539 --> 00:09:43,416 Sex Pistols had the... 141 00:09:43,541 --> 00:09:45,793 first single, which was "Anarchy In The U.K." 142 00:09:45,918 --> 00:09:48,588 Then a band came along called Crass, 143 00:09:48,713 --> 00:09:52,383 who really did have the anarchy thing going on. 144 00:09:52,508 --> 00:09:54,969 You know, seriously, it was more than just a, 145 00:09:55,094 --> 00:09:58,014 you know, a few words in a song. 146 00:09:58,139 --> 00:10:00,141 They were extremely friendly people 147 00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:01,934 and invited me to stay 148 00:10:02,059 --> 00:10:04,103 at their commune in Epping Forest. 149 00:10:04,228 --> 00:10:06,647 I stayed there for a week, you know. 150 00:10:06,772 --> 00:10:08,441 And they fed me and every day 151 00:10:08,566 --> 00:10:10,693 at the, you know, dinner table 152 00:10:10,818 --> 00:10:12,320 we'd have these discussions 153 00:10:12,445 --> 00:10:14,071 and all this sort of thing. 154 00:10:14,197 --> 00:10:16,032 And, yeah, actually, 155 00:10:16,157 --> 00:10:18,910 before I met them, I think, I was a rebel without a clue. 156 00:10:18,993 --> 00:10:20,786 But when I came out of that week, 157 00:10:20,912 --> 00:10:22,830 you know, I was a vegetarian, 158 00:10:22,955 --> 00:10:25,875 I was kind of an anarch, anarcho-socialist. 159 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,794 And they'd really, you know, 160 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,089 rearranged my brain 161 00:10:32,215 --> 00:10:34,509 quite nicely, thank you very much. 162 00:10:34,634 --> 00:10:38,179 I was living in Bristol, in England, at the time. 163 00:10:38,304 --> 00:10:41,682 And I was working at the hospital, 164 00:10:41,807 --> 00:10:44,810 putting plaster paris on people's broken arms and legs and stuff 165 00:10:44,936 --> 00:10:46,979 and this girl came in with a wrist problem, 166 00:10:47,104 --> 00:10:48,439 wearing these weird clothes. 167 00:10:48,564 --> 00:10:49,899 I went, "What's the deal with these clothes?" 168 00:10:50,024 --> 00:10:51,108 and she went, "Haven't you heard of punk rock?" 169 00:10:51,234 --> 00:10:52,360 I went, "Yeah, so what." 170 00:10:52,485 --> 00:10:53,528 She went, "Well, there's a band playing, 171 00:10:53,611 --> 00:10:55,446 Friday, called The Clash." 172 00:10:55,571 --> 00:10:57,365 Ah, I went, "Well, I'll go if you'll go." 173 00:10:57,490 --> 00:10:59,367 She went, "I'll be there", I went, "I'll see you there". 174 00:10:59,492 --> 00:11:00,660 I wasn't going for the music. 175 00:11:00,785 --> 00:11:02,495 I was trying to get into her pants. 176 00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:04,372 When The Clash came on, my God, 177 00:11:04,497 --> 00:11:06,999 I mean, I was just blown away. I mean, that was literally it. 178 00:11:07,124 --> 00:11:09,001 Paul Simonon looked 20-feet tall. 179 00:11:11,587 --> 00:11:13,047 With that sound, you know, 180 00:11:13,172 --> 00:11:14,924 and it sort of woke something up in me. 181 00:11:15,049 --> 00:11:17,677 And I was like, this is-- Yeah, I understand it. 182 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,263 I get it, it's The Terraces, fucking Terraces all over again. 183 00:11:20,388 --> 00:11:22,306 And it's this, to everything, absolutely everything. 184 00:11:22,431 --> 00:11:24,058 Everything that has gone before, you know. 185 00:11:24,183 --> 00:11:27,019 It's all gone, you know, this is the future. 186 00:11:27,144 --> 00:11:28,938 Yeah, that was it. 187 00:11:29,063 --> 00:11:31,107 [♪♪♪] 188 00:11:31,232 --> 00:11:32,942 For me, and I think a lot of people, 189 00:11:33,067 --> 00:11:36,362 punk rock was about complete and utter change. 190 00:11:36,487 --> 00:11:38,573 Part of that change is you strive to survive... 191 00:11:38,698 --> 00:11:40,950 causing least suffering possible, to quote Flux. 192 00:11:41,033 --> 00:11:43,828 And part of that is looking at what you eat. 193 00:11:43,953 --> 00:11:46,080 [♪♪♪] 194 00:12:04,432 --> 00:12:06,267 CELESTE BELL: There were different types of punks. 195 00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:09,812 Not all the punks were socially conscious, first of all. 196 00:12:09,937 --> 00:12:11,939 My mum was one of those 197 00:12:12,064 --> 00:12:15,526 who had, you know, um, a social perspective. 198 00:12:15,651 --> 00:12:19,780 The songs that she was writing were interested in, you know, 199 00:12:19,906 --> 00:12:22,992 social issues, social justice, for example. 200 00:12:23,117 --> 00:12:26,579 Then animal rights, you know, was a big part of that. 201 00:12:26,704 --> 00:12:29,457 My mom had a really strong character. 202 00:12:29,582 --> 00:12:33,711 In her music, she was kind of writing about social issues-- 203 00:12:33,836 --> 00:12:36,756 consumerism, environmental issues. 204 00:12:36,881 --> 00:12:39,675 So she always had that kind of very strong social conscience. 205 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,720 [♪♪♪] 206 00:12:42,845 --> 00:12:46,224 It was when she became a Hare Krishna devotee, 207 00:12:46,349 --> 00:12:49,018 that her childhood vegetarianism 208 00:12:49,143 --> 00:12:54,065 was transformed into something a bit more profound and... 209 00:12:54,190 --> 00:12:57,693 you know, the idea that animals are beings 210 00:12:57,818 --> 00:13:03,115 that we need to respect and protect as well. 211 00:13:03,241 --> 00:13:06,202 Well, yeah, and it's your duty to be, you know, an activist. 212 00:13:06,285 --> 00:13:08,746 It's your duty to rebel, you know, as long as you do it, 213 00:13:08,871 --> 00:13:10,623 you know, but not in a violent way. 214 00:13:10,748 --> 00:13:13,084 I didn't want to see animals being hurt, you know. 215 00:13:13,209 --> 00:13:15,086 I mean, it just sort of came out of it really. 216 00:13:15,211 --> 00:13:17,880 I mean, people sort of credit Crass with starting, 217 00:13:18,005 --> 00:13:20,466 you know, kickstarting the vegetarian thing. 218 00:13:20,591 --> 00:13:22,593 And we didn't really. I mean, we were vegetarians. 219 00:13:22,718 --> 00:13:25,263 And we, we used to sort of mention it in the interviews. 220 00:13:25,388 --> 00:13:29,851 Um, and we used to make the link between the-- 221 00:13:29,976 --> 00:13:31,477 the flesh on the battlefield 222 00:13:31,602 --> 00:13:33,271 and the flesh on the plate sort of thing. 223 00:13:33,396 --> 00:13:34,981 Once that started, 224 00:13:35,106 --> 00:13:37,316 yeah, that became part of the punk movement. 225 00:13:37,441 --> 00:13:39,151 So, I mean, although we were sort of instrumental 226 00:13:39,277 --> 00:13:41,153 in maybe kick-starting it. 227 00:13:41,237 --> 00:13:44,073 You know, it was just a part of what we did. 228 00:13:44,198 --> 00:13:48,411 We had an album, The Damned, called Strawberries for Pigs. 229 00:13:48,536 --> 00:13:51,873 We went to a pig farm 230 00:13:51,998 --> 00:13:55,126 to take the cover-- 231 00:13:55,251 --> 00:13:58,129 the photo, um, for the sleeve. 232 00:13:59,964 --> 00:14:02,508 Nobody liked that The Damned, kind of, 233 00:14:02,633 --> 00:14:04,719 we were going on a musical adventure. 234 00:14:04,844 --> 00:14:06,721 And we're getting a bit of stick for it. 235 00:14:08,264 --> 00:14:09,599 We did this Christmas single, 236 00:14:09,724 --> 00:14:12,059 which was a sort of spoof, and at the end, 237 00:14:12,185 --> 00:14:14,520 Penny Rimbaud says, "And if you're munching 238 00:14:14,645 --> 00:14:16,105 "your delicious turkey, 239 00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:17,857 I hope it fucking chokes you!" 240 00:14:17,982 --> 00:14:20,109 And... [LAUGHING] 241 00:14:21,777 --> 00:14:24,071 I'm proud to have been in Crass. 242 00:14:24,155 --> 00:14:26,490 You go anywhere in the world, you'll see a Crass symbol somewhere 243 00:14:26,616 --> 00:14:29,368 on someone's arm, leg, whatever, on a T-shirt or something. 244 00:14:29,493 --> 00:14:31,621 When I see how global it is, and how many people it's inspired, 245 00:14:31,746 --> 00:14:33,915 and the way people come up to me at gigs and, 246 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,501 you know, in tears or whatever, 'cause, "I had a bad childhood," 247 00:14:36,626 --> 00:14:40,046 and Crass' music helped 'em through it, or this... 248 00:14:40,171 --> 00:14:41,881 It's just incredibly humbling. 249 00:14:42,006 --> 00:14:43,799 NICKY GARRATT: We were already an established band 250 00:14:43,925 --> 00:14:45,676 when Crass came along. 251 00:14:45,801 --> 00:14:48,679 Obviously, they were more anarchistic than we were. 252 00:14:48,804 --> 00:14:52,058 They were more about the political aspects of things. 253 00:14:52,183 --> 00:14:53,976 It wasn't about fashion, it wasn't-- 254 00:14:54,101 --> 00:14:55,853 These were elements-- fashion was element, 255 00:14:55,978 --> 00:14:59,023 the music was element-- but the driving force of it 256 00:14:59,106 --> 00:15:02,318 in all of those things was skepticism. 257 00:15:02,443 --> 00:15:04,195 [PUNK ROCK PLAYING] 258 00:15:07,823 --> 00:15:10,117 There was clashes, career opportunities, 259 00:15:10,243 --> 00:15:11,994 skeptical of the jobs they're just trying 260 00:15:12,119 --> 00:15:14,247 to get you to do, meaningless jobs. 261 00:15:14,372 --> 00:15:16,040 X-Ray Spex, 262 00:15:16,165 --> 00:15:19,836 identity about the accepted face of beauty 263 00:15:19,961 --> 00:15:21,796 for a woman, the church-- 264 00:15:21,921 --> 00:15:24,090 all of these things were being challenged. 265 00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:25,883 There's a skeptical movement. 266 00:15:26,008 --> 00:15:28,052 And another thing that was being challenged 267 00:15:28,177 --> 00:15:29,720 was the way we eat. 268 00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:34,559 Punk rock is not that to everybody. 269 00:15:34,684 --> 00:15:39,689 I think there is a certain stream 270 00:15:39,814 --> 00:15:41,732 that came out of punk rock that do. 271 00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:43,442 And I think, it's actually probably 272 00:15:43,568 --> 00:15:45,945 more American than it is British. 273 00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:48,823 [♪♪♪] 274 00:16:02,336 --> 00:16:05,965 When I came to America in '82, 275 00:16:06,090 --> 00:16:08,092 I understood that there were other people 276 00:16:08,217 --> 00:16:10,094 that were actually carving out 277 00:16:10,219 --> 00:16:13,431 a little bit of a movement for vegetarianism. 278 00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:15,683 Ian MacKaye and Henry Rollins, 279 00:16:15,808 --> 00:16:18,060 all the people in D.C., in particular, 280 00:16:18,186 --> 00:16:19,812 used to come to our shows. 281 00:16:19,937 --> 00:16:21,272 [♪♪♪] 282 00:16:23,357 --> 00:16:29,030 I don't know to what degree I was influential on them. 283 00:16:29,155 --> 00:16:31,574 People treated me like I was the grandfather 284 00:16:31,699 --> 00:16:32,700 of straight edge. 285 00:16:47,006 --> 00:16:48,883 [♪♪♪] 286 00:16:59,936 --> 00:17:01,854 Most people say, "Why are you a vegetarian?" 287 00:17:01,979 --> 00:17:04,315 or "Why don't you eat meat?" 288 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,984 And my argument is like, "Why shouldn't I be vegetarian?" 289 00:17:08,611 --> 00:17:10,321 The first person I can think of 290 00:17:10,446 --> 00:17:13,616 who talked about tofu was H.R. from the Bad Brains. 291 00:17:13,741 --> 00:17:15,743 It never occurred to any of us, 292 00:17:15,868 --> 00:17:17,411 about like what we were eating. 293 00:17:17,537 --> 00:17:18,955 We're just, like, eat junk food. 294 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,249 H.R. was the one, he mentioned that. 295 00:17:22,542 --> 00:17:24,126 H.R.: 296 00:17:58,202 --> 00:18:00,621 RAY CAPPO:In retrospect, Crass was like way ahead of their time, 297 00:18:00,746 --> 00:18:02,456 and I think London and England 298 00:18:02,582 --> 00:18:05,877 had a big veganism movement before anybody. 299 00:18:06,002 --> 00:18:08,671 We were always looking for alternatives, 300 00:18:08,796 --> 00:18:11,549 and the mainstream just didn't appear sensible. 301 00:18:11,674 --> 00:18:13,342 And we were looking for some other-- 302 00:18:13,426 --> 00:18:15,845 There's got to be other ideas out there. 303 00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:19,056 It's an interesting, sort of, almost dichotomy, 304 00:18:19,182 --> 00:18:21,809 because there was so much, like, rage and anger 305 00:18:21,934 --> 00:18:24,187 and being against society. 306 00:18:24,312 --> 00:18:27,982 And you know beating people up, there's a lot of that. 307 00:18:28,107 --> 00:18:29,567 But... 308 00:18:29,692 --> 00:18:32,737 maybe that was sort of the yin and yang of it. 309 00:18:32,862 --> 00:18:34,488 [♪♪♪] 310 00:18:39,827 --> 00:18:42,997 For me it was, you know, as-- It was so strong for so long, 311 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,875 it was like not even a question after a certain point. 312 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,669 CAPPO: Being into punk music and hanging out, 313 00:18:48,794 --> 00:18:51,672 you hear a lot of all different types of philosophies going out there. 314 00:18:51,797 --> 00:18:55,718 You hear about anarchism and nihilism, 315 00:18:55,843 --> 00:18:59,013 and it was all sort of confusing when you're 14 years old. 316 00:18:59,138 --> 00:19:01,849 Even straight edge, I didn't get into it 317 00:19:01,974 --> 00:19:03,267 from hearing the Minor Threat song, 318 00:19:03,392 --> 00:19:05,061 although, I love Minor Threat. 319 00:19:05,186 --> 00:19:07,396 I was rebelling from a Connecticut high school, 320 00:19:07,522 --> 00:19:08,940 life, in mentality. 321 00:19:09,065 --> 00:19:10,691 Pumping a keg, drinking a beer, 322 00:19:10,816 --> 00:19:12,485 getting drink, sitting around, trying to like... 323 00:19:12,610 --> 00:19:15,112 ruin this computer that we have, the brain, 324 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:16,656 just by pouring alcohol on it. 325 00:19:16,781 --> 00:19:18,491 So, I was like, I'm not like that. 326 00:19:18,616 --> 00:19:20,076 I am different. I'm into punk. 327 00:19:22,203 --> 00:19:25,206 And so, as I like, sort of like, came into my own, 328 00:19:25,331 --> 00:19:27,291 I thought, you know what, this message is important. 329 00:19:27,416 --> 00:19:29,752 I'm going to rally behind the message of clean living. 330 00:19:31,671 --> 00:19:33,214 Minor Threat coined that phrase. 331 00:19:33,339 --> 00:19:35,466 I just ran with it and we started creating 332 00:19:35,591 --> 00:19:38,761 a whole-- Now, it never was planned. 333 00:19:38,886 --> 00:19:40,930 This is just what me and Porcell believed in. 334 00:19:41,055 --> 00:19:43,891 PORCELL: We moved to the city to do Youth of Today. 335 00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:46,394 And so, we were doing Youth of Today and there was 336 00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:47,812 a kind of like straight edge explosion 337 00:19:47,937 --> 00:19:49,605 that was happening in the hardcore scene, 338 00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:51,649 and CBGBs, and all these bands 339 00:19:51,774 --> 00:19:53,234 like Gorilla Biscuits were coming up. 340 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,694 And it was at the same time, me and Ray 341 00:19:54,819 --> 00:19:56,737 were getting into vegetarianism. 342 00:19:56,863 --> 00:19:59,156 And so, we started talking about, like, 343 00:19:59,282 --> 00:20:01,033 "Hey, you know, should we sing about this stuff?" 344 00:20:01,158 --> 00:20:03,244 I remember we actually had talks about it. 345 00:20:03,369 --> 00:20:05,371 And then we just kind of like figured it out together, like, 346 00:20:05,496 --> 00:20:07,707 hardcore means that you bash out a few chords, 347 00:20:07,832 --> 00:20:09,834 and you get up on stage and you sing about things 348 00:20:09,959 --> 00:20:10,960 that are important to you. 349 00:20:11,085 --> 00:20:12,879 [♪♪♪] 350 00:20:13,004 --> 00:20:16,257 Sort of like, "Let's just do it," like, we're into this. 351 00:20:18,926 --> 00:20:20,511 CAPPO: You got up and you sort of made noise 352 00:20:20,636 --> 00:20:22,346 and we preached about straight edge. 353 00:20:22,471 --> 00:20:23,931 [♪♪♪] 354 00:20:26,851 --> 00:20:28,895 Me and Porcell came to this point where like, 355 00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:33,191 you know what, we have to write a song about vegetarianism. 356 00:20:33,357 --> 00:20:34,984 And we have to put it on the line 357 00:20:35,109 --> 00:20:37,403 for all this community that's straight edge, 358 00:20:37,486 --> 00:20:39,363 that if you're not a vegetarian, 359 00:20:39,488 --> 00:20:40,615 you're not straight edge. 360 00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:42,658 [♪♪♪] 361 00:21:32,667 --> 00:21:34,418 PORCELL:I got into punk 362 00:21:34,544 --> 00:21:36,879 at a super early age-- like, I went straight 363 00:21:37,004 --> 00:21:38,881 from Kiss, like, right into the Ramones, 364 00:21:39,006 --> 00:21:41,133 right into the Sex Pistols right into Black Flag. 365 00:21:41,259 --> 00:21:43,427 And I remember Dave MDC was saying 366 00:21:43,511 --> 00:21:45,471 all this stuff about vegetarianism 367 00:21:45,596 --> 00:21:46,889 for the whole set. 368 00:21:47,014 --> 00:21:48,891 "It's not natural to eat meat," 369 00:21:49,016 --> 00:21:50,726 you know, "We have sideways moving jaws." 370 00:21:50,852 --> 00:21:52,603 He's actually kind of explaining stuff 371 00:21:52,728 --> 00:21:54,522 about vegetarianism that was really 372 00:21:54,647 --> 00:21:57,024 sort of like, I've never heard of this before, 373 00:21:57,149 --> 00:21:59,068 like I never even knew there was anything wrong 374 00:21:59,193 --> 00:22:00,194 with eating meat. 375 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:01,904 [♪♪♪] 376 00:22:03,155 --> 00:22:05,950 Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine 377 00:22:06,075 --> 00:22:09,078 Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein 378 00:22:09,203 --> 00:22:11,706 Wishing Daffy lots of luck 379 00:22:11,831 --> 00:22:14,500 'Cause Elmer Fudd's a hunting duck 380 00:22:14,625 --> 00:22:17,795 They're dreaming about their little fricassee 381 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,507 Come on down and do the chicken squawk with me 382 00:22:21,632 --> 00:22:23,926 Bawk, bawk, bawk... 383 00:22:25,803 --> 00:22:28,014 PORCELL: And so I talked to him after the set. 384 00:22:28,139 --> 00:22:29,515 And I said, "What was all that stuff 385 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,142 you're saying about vegetarianism?" 386 00:22:31,267 --> 00:22:33,436 He was like, "Vegetarianism is the way. 387 00:22:33,561 --> 00:22:35,563 Meat eating isn't natural." 388 00:22:35,688 --> 00:22:38,691 Why are we falling in love 389 00:22:38,816 --> 00:22:40,484 with these cartoon animals on TV? 390 00:22:40,610 --> 00:22:44,906 Why are we so nice to our dogs and our cats, 391 00:22:45,031 --> 00:22:47,658 and why are you so ready to eat an animal? 392 00:22:47,783 --> 00:22:51,412 Uh, it just came really quick to me. 393 00:22:51,537 --> 00:22:52,663 [♪♪♪] 394 00:22:52,788 --> 00:22:54,207 It's just not thinking about 395 00:22:54,332 --> 00:22:56,417 all the ramifications of what birds 396 00:22:56,542 --> 00:22:58,044 feel like in those cages 397 00:22:58,169 --> 00:23:00,796 and what the slaughter industry is all about. 398 00:23:02,882 --> 00:23:06,344 I really was a songwriter and a musician. 399 00:23:06,511 --> 00:23:08,012 Now, just where to put that, 400 00:23:08,137 --> 00:23:10,806 and punk was just the perfect place. 401 00:23:10,932 --> 00:23:13,643 In Austin, Texas, and people would come down. 402 00:23:13,726 --> 00:23:15,353 It was the first punk rock acts. 403 00:23:15,478 --> 00:23:17,313 You know, Sharon Tate's Baby and people that went on 404 00:23:17,438 --> 00:23:19,357 to become the Dicks and The Huns. 405 00:23:19,482 --> 00:23:22,109 And they come there, and I came with my acoustic guitar, 406 00:23:22,235 --> 00:23:25,071 and I wrote a song called "I Hate Work", at Domino's in the bathroom, 407 00:23:25,196 --> 00:23:26,822 because my boss wanted me to stay an extra shift, 408 00:23:26,948 --> 00:23:28,658 I didn't want to stay an extra shift. 409 00:23:28,741 --> 00:23:30,618 And I took it down to the punk rock club 410 00:23:30,743 --> 00:23:32,370 and played it for everyone, everyone loved it. 411 00:23:32,537 --> 00:23:33,704 And it was like, "Oh, it sounds like--" 412 00:23:33,829 --> 00:23:35,373 Well, of course, I'm a punk rocker. 413 00:23:35,498 --> 00:23:36,624 [♪♪♪] 414 00:23:36,749 --> 00:23:38,251 I knew the Cro-Mags, 415 00:23:38,376 --> 00:23:41,587 and I knew Harley and I knew John Joseph, 416 00:23:41,712 --> 00:23:44,924 and they're both hard-boiled New York City characters. 417 00:23:45,049 --> 00:23:47,218 Right away, and John Joseph and Harley 418 00:23:47,343 --> 00:23:48,636 were like, "So you're a vegetarian?" 419 00:23:48,761 --> 00:23:49,971 They asked me a lot of questions, 420 00:23:50,096 --> 00:23:52,849 and then they got onto it, big. 421 00:23:52,974 --> 00:23:56,060 JOHN JOSEPH: Just to complain about some shit and offer no solutions, 422 00:23:56,185 --> 00:23:58,229 you're going to run out of fucking steam. 423 00:23:58,354 --> 00:23:59,939 If we want to be a real revolutionary, 424 00:24:00,064 --> 00:24:02,316 and you want to be a real motherfucker punk rock 425 00:24:02,441 --> 00:24:03,901 and a real hard core, 426 00:24:04,026 --> 00:24:07,321 you stand up for what the fuck is right. 427 00:24:07,446 --> 00:24:09,198 The hardcore scene has turned out 428 00:24:09,323 --> 00:24:12,827 some fucking revolutionary type people, man. 429 00:24:12,952 --> 00:24:16,622 The guys from Shelter and Ray, Porcell, and Toby, 430 00:24:16,747 --> 00:24:19,584 and then you know, the off shoot of all those. 431 00:24:19,709 --> 00:24:23,796 Then you got Travis Barker and fuckin everybody that's come after that. 432 00:24:23,921 --> 00:24:26,883 But it all comes back to that one candle 433 00:24:27,008 --> 00:24:29,135 and that candle is the Bad Brains. 434 00:24:29,260 --> 00:24:33,306 H.R.: I didn't know how much of an inspiration 435 00:24:33,431 --> 00:24:35,766 I was to them-- They would come to me and say, 436 00:24:35,892 --> 00:24:39,437 "Well, you've inspired us, and we want you to know 437 00:24:39,604 --> 00:24:41,230 that if it wasn't for you, 438 00:24:41,355 --> 00:24:43,941 our lives wouldn't be the way it is." 439 00:24:44,066 --> 00:24:47,403 and "You changed my life" and... 440 00:24:47,528 --> 00:24:50,740 just different, um, positive things. 441 00:24:50,865 --> 00:24:54,160 CHAKA MALIK:Yo, Burn had a song called "Shall Be Judged", 442 00:24:54,285 --> 00:24:56,787 about, like, who's the winner, 443 00:24:56,913 --> 00:24:58,581 who's the loser loser here, kind of thing, like, 444 00:24:58,706 --> 00:25:01,876 are we empowered to do this? 445 00:25:01,959 --> 00:25:04,003 And I think that was an important song for me. 446 00:25:04,128 --> 00:25:06,422 And other people, folks have shared 447 00:25:06,547 --> 00:25:08,216 that it was relevant for them at the time. 448 00:25:08,341 --> 00:25:11,761 MacKAYE: Tomas from Beefeater, he had become a vegetarian. 449 00:25:11,886 --> 00:25:14,639 And there's a song out there actually called "Dog Day". 450 00:25:14,764 --> 00:25:16,599 It's about a dog walking down the street 451 00:25:16,724 --> 00:25:18,684 that walks by a slaughterhouse, 452 00:25:18,809 --> 00:25:20,978 and he looks in the door and sees all these cows. 453 00:25:21,103 --> 00:25:23,147 Like, what's going on? These cows are being hooked up 454 00:25:23,272 --> 00:25:24,815 and like dragged around 455 00:25:24,941 --> 00:25:26,692 and having their throats slit, and he's, like, "Whoa!" 456 00:25:26,817 --> 00:25:28,528 And he's wandering in, 457 00:25:28,653 --> 00:25:30,363 and he accidentally slips and gets pulled up 458 00:25:30,488 --> 00:25:33,157 into the hook and the machine cuts its throat. 459 00:25:33,282 --> 00:25:35,076 And then all the people gathered are like, 460 00:25:35,201 --> 00:25:37,328 "Oh, poor dog, poor dog", you know. 461 00:25:37,453 --> 00:25:38,663 That song, that's a great song. 462 00:25:38,788 --> 00:25:40,164 It's on the first Beefeater record. 463 00:25:40,289 --> 00:25:42,291 When I saw those animals be killed, 464 00:25:42,416 --> 00:25:45,211 and the way they just treated them like they were a commodity, 465 00:25:45,336 --> 00:25:47,839 like, they weren't even living beings, it just... 466 00:25:47,964 --> 00:25:50,842 it fucking resonated with me deep. 467 00:25:50,967 --> 00:25:53,719 The thing that I noticed when I stopped eating meat 468 00:25:53,845 --> 00:25:56,389 was the change in my consciousness. 469 00:25:56,514 --> 00:25:58,683 I grew up with violence all around me 470 00:25:58,808 --> 00:26:03,813 and then once the Rastas told me and the Bad Brains said, 471 00:26:03,938 --> 00:26:09,318 "Every second of pain that that animal had to suffer, 472 00:26:09,443 --> 00:26:11,070 you're ingesting that." 473 00:26:11,195 --> 00:26:12,655 And then when I find out, yeah, 474 00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:14,574 they falsely impregnate these cows, 475 00:26:14,699 --> 00:26:17,159 they raped the cows, they, they take the-- 476 00:26:17,285 --> 00:26:19,829 The mothers cry for their babies and... 477 00:26:19,954 --> 00:26:22,206 I'm like, I can't fucking support this. 478 00:26:22,331 --> 00:26:24,292 I can't support these industries. 479 00:26:24,417 --> 00:26:29,463 It's amazing how much there's meat culture. 480 00:26:29,589 --> 00:26:31,507 You know, and it's so pervasive. 481 00:26:31,632 --> 00:26:35,428 And you don't even know until you fucking think about it, 482 00:26:35,553 --> 00:26:38,264 and then it's like, "Whoa." 483 00:26:38,389 --> 00:26:40,892 It's a-- It's a big deal. 484 00:26:41,017 --> 00:26:42,768 [♪♪♪] 485 00:26:42,768 --> 00:26:45,980 I was already a vegetarian before I played punk. 486 00:26:46,105 --> 00:26:50,693 I was all-- I mean, I just wanted myself to be right, 487 00:26:50,818 --> 00:26:53,362 you know, I didn't want to eat death. 488 00:26:53,487 --> 00:26:56,115 I think it's a combination of the desire to just sort of, 489 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,327 the innate desire to go against the grain and kind of, 490 00:26:59,452 --> 00:27:01,537 go against the mainstream and rebel. 491 00:27:01,662 --> 00:27:06,584 That's part and parcel of punk and punk ethos. 492 00:27:06,709 --> 00:27:09,378 You kind of get there from starting to care 493 00:27:09,504 --> 00:27:12,423 about the world around you and the future of humanity 494 00:27:12,548 --> 00:27:14,008 and the plants and the animals. 495 00:27:15,927 --> 00:27:17,512 [♪♪♪] 496 00:28:17,405 --> 00:28:19,323 [PEOPLE CHATTERING] 497 00:28:20,616 --> 00:28:22,451 [SCHOOL BELL RINGS] 498 00:28:22,577 --> 00:28:25,121 Alright, class, as you know, we are here to discuss 499 00:28:25,246 --> 00:28:27,707 the central thesis of the film, 500 00:28:27,832 --> 00:28:30,042 And almost a hermeneutic assessment 501 00:28:30,168 --> 00:28:34,922 of the surprising historical intersectionality 502 00:28:35,047 --> 00:28:39,343 between these ostensibly disparate French movements: 503 00:28:39,468 --> 00:28:42,722 punk rock and animal rights. 504 00:28:42,847 --> 00:28:46,559 As you know, we typically employ a Socratic dialectic in here. 505 00:28:46,684 --> 00:28:51,063 And I thought, given your academic standing 506 00:28:51,189 --> 00:28:53,232 and your familiarity with the material, 507 00:28:53,357 --> 00:28:55,026 we would just dive right in. 508 00:28:58,613 --> 00:29:01,449 Does this discussion go back to the Pre-Socratics? 509 00:29:01,574 --> 00:29:03,367 Technically, no. 510 00:29:03,492 --> 00:29:06,787 Will we be looking at this ethically or ontologically? 511 00:29:06,913 --> 00:29:10,333 You're right. This does seem like an almost 512 00:29:10,458 --> 00:29:13,419 post-modern deconstruction of intersectionality. 513 00:29:13,544 --> 00:29:15,713 Literally, I think cows are cute. 514 00:29:15,838 --> 00:29:18,341 I also think cows are cute. 515 00:29:18,466 --> 00:29:20,968 It's hard to employ any objective criteria 516 00:29:21,093 --> 00:29:22,512 in this dialectic. 517 00:29:22,637 --> 00:29:24,472 Miss Julia, are we allowed to yell? 518 00:29:24,597 --> 00:29:27,016 Punk rock absolutely involves yelling. 519 00:29:27,141 --> 00:29:29,268 [ALL YELLING] 520 00:29:29,393 --> 00:29:31,020 [♪♪♪] 521 00:29:37,693 --> 00:29:39,570 This is probably the best grad student seminar 522 00:29:39,695 --> 00:29:40,905 I've ever taught. 523 00:29:41,030 --> 00:29:43,366 I think that my brother is a monkey. 524 00:29:43,491 --> 00:29:45,117 Well said. 525 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,620 [♪♪♪] 526 00:30:03,135 --> 00:30:05,054 WALTER SCHREIFELS: I was 16 or 17 and Youth Today 527 00:30:05,179 --> 00:30:09,517 had come to New York from Connecticut and was really, 528 00:30:09,642 --> 00:30:12,103 the kind of most exciting band at that time. 529 00:30:12,228 --> 00:30:14,355 I got asked to join the band, 530 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,775 and the prerequisite was that I had to become a vegetarian. 531 00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,653 All respect to Ian for inventing straight edge 532 00:30:20,778 --> 00:30:23,656 in whatever way that came together. 533 00:30:23,781 --> 00:30:26,868 I think Ray was really, kind of, 534 00:30:26,993 --> 00:30:30,246 the guy that was pushing that agenda. 535 00:30:30,371 --> 00:30:32,456 [♪♪♪] 536 00:30:32,582 --> 00:30:34,375 ARTHUR SMILIOS:Walter, at the time, was playing in Youth of Today. 537 00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:36,752 He went on tour with them. And CIV went on tour with them 538 00:30:36,878 --> 00:30:38,212 as a roadie. 539 00:30:38,337 --> 00:30:40,548 When they came back, they were vegetarian. 540 00:30:40,673 --> 00:30:44,719 I went vegetarian for all the wrong reasons because it was cool 541 00:30:44,844 --> 00:30:47,054 and because these people I admired did it. 542 00:30:47,180 --> 00:30:48,598 -[MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY] -Yeah, yeah. 543 00:30:48,723 --> 00:30:50,224 And then I actually started reading about it. 544 00:30:50,349 --> 00:30:52,560 And it made sense. It became such a, 545 00:30:52,685 --> 00:30:55,479 such a part of hardcore and punk rock. 546 00:30:55,605 --> 00:30:57,523 You know, it was just expanding the circle of compassion 547 00:30:57,648 --> 00:30:59,525 to include everything, so it just seems 548 00:30:59,650 --> 00:31:02,153 to fit perfectly to me with the whole ethos 549 00:31:02,278 --> 00:31:04,530 of what punk rock is supposed to be. 550 00:31:04,655 --> 00:31:06,324 What's great was finding out that there were a lot 551 00:31:06,449 --> 00:31:09,368 of other people that were... similar minded. 552 00:31:09,493 --> 00:31:10,995 You know, especially in the hardcore, 553 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,080 where it was pretty easy to find that, like all the guys 554 00:31:13,206 --> 00:31:16,751 in Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, CIV. 555 00:31:16,876 --> 00:31:18,711 I was friends with all of them 556 00:31:18,836 --> 00:31:22,924 and so I was always around that type of scene. 557 00:31:23,049 --> 00:31:26,886 We punk rockers, we wake up about noon and go to the soup kitchen, 558 00:31:27,011 --> 00:31:30,681 and they would always just have like, sort of beans and bread. 559 00:31:32,099 --> 00:31:33,726 Not even really veggie burgers. 560 00:31:33,851 --> 00:31:36,479 It was, it was some sort a lentil soup 561 00:31:36,604 --> 00:31:39,398 and some beans and rice and that would be the staple. 562 00:31:39,524 --> 00:31:43,069 And so, that was kind of a vegan thing, too. 563 00:31:43,194 --> 00:31:45,029 All the punk bands would just go there and eat, 564 00:31:45,154 --> 00:31:46,864 because it was free food and we'd been doing 565 00:31:46,989 --> 00:31:48,699 something else all night and we didn't have any money. 566 00:31:48,824 --> 00:31:51,452 So, yeah, we'd just go and hang out and eat food. 567 00:31:51,577 --> 00:31:53,412 [♪♪♪] 568 00:31:53,538 --> 00:31:56,040 We're not the normal people, we don't do what normal people do. 569 00:31:56,165 --> 00:32:00,753 We don't go and hunt animals, you know. 570 00:32:00,878 --> 00:32:04,549 We're not fucking Ted Nugent. We don't do any of that stuff, you know. 571 00:32:04,674 --> 00:32:08,469 If anything, we're going against the grain. 572 00:32:08,594 --> 00:32:11,347 And against the grain has not necessarily become mainstream, 573 00:32:11,472 --> 00:32:12,932 but it has an awareness 574 00:32:13,057 --> 00:32:16,435 that punks sort of grasped onto, early on. 575 00:32:16,561 --> 00:32:18,271 ATIBA JEFFERSON:You're not doing it because you're punk, 576 00:32:18,396 --> 00:32:20,106 but you're not scared to be different, 577 00:32:20,231 --> 00:32:22,859 and that's why I think the scene's embraced it so much, 578 00:32:22,984 --> 00:32:25,736 because we have no fear in being individuals. 579 00:32:25,862 --> 00:32:27,655 [♪♪♪] 580 00:32:35,246 --> 00:32:37,748 At the same time, hardcore had it, 581 00:32:37,874 --> 00:32:41,294 talking about it in it's lyrics and then so did skateboarding. 582 00:32:41,419 --> 00:32:42,962 So it just really made me 583 00:32:43,087 --> 00:32:45,631 feel like that's something that I should support. 584 00:32:45,756 --> 00:32:48,092 It just became like this conscious thing. 585 00:32:48,217 --> 00:32:51,345 And, you know, the reason why we were being vegetarians 586 00:32:51,470 --> 00:32:53,681 was for the animals. 587 00:32:53,806 --> 00:32:55,683 And we were all skating in canvas shoes, 588 00:32:55,808 --> 00:32:57,310 and we were really, you know, 589 00:32:57,435 --> 00:32:59,937 always getting Vans that were canvas 590 00:33:00,062 --> 00:33:02,273 and being really conscious about that. 591 00:33:02,398 --> 00:33:04,192 And I think it's kind of funny, because I don't think 592 00:33:04,275 --> 00:33:06,194 any of us were thinking about health. 593 00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:09,113 I think we were thinking about the animals more. 594 00:33:09,238 --> 00:33:11,365 DAVEY HAVOK: It was the straight edge community that really opened my eyes 595 00:33:11,490 --> 00:33:15,328 to what was really happening and saying you know, it's not okay. 596 00:33:15,453 --> 00:33:18,706 It's not okay to abuse 597 00:33:18,831 --> 00:33:22,168 and murder animals for your own joy 598 00:33:22,293 --> 00:33:23,461 and detriment. 599 00:33:23,586 --> 00:33:25,671 Not benefit. 600 00:33:25,796 --> 00:33:28,382 DOYLE WOLFGANG:When you play music like that, that's aggressive, 601 00:33:28,508 --> 00:33:31,385 to go on a tour and continuously perform 602 00:33:31,511 --> 00:33:33,429 at a high level, you gotta be health conscious. 603 00:33:33,554 --> 00:33:35,056 You know, it's like being an athlete. 604 00:33:37,099 --> 00:33:38,643 I always bring food with me. 605 00:33:38,768 --> 00:33:42,271 I'll go to do a signing somewhere. 606 00:33:42,396 --> 00:33:44,565 My luggage is half food. 607 00:33:44,690 --> 00:33:46,984 It's oatmeal and protein powder, 608 00:33:47,151 --> 00:33:48,903 and you know, peanuts. 609 00:33:49,028 --> 00:33:52,657 I was with Elisa, and we were first starting to date, 610 00:33:52,782 --> 00:33:55,910 and she showed me all the videos, you know. 611 00:33:56,035 --> 00:33:57,954 They were horrifying and I watched 'em, 612 00:33:58,079 --> 00:34:00,331 and we just sat there and cried and I realized 613 00:34:00,456 --> 00:34:02,625 that I was paying people to do that. 614 00:34:02,750 --> 00:34:04,794 A lot of people don't understand that. 615 00:34:04,919 --> 00:34:06,963 They think, "Oh, you know, I'm not killing it." 616 00:34:07,088 --> 00:34:08,631 Yeah, you are. 617 00:34:08,756 --> 00:34:10,716 You're paying for somebody to kill that for you. 618 00:34:10,842 --> 00:34:12,343 [♪♪♪] 619 00:34:16,347 --> 00:34:19,100 Whenever you get to spend any time with like farm animals, 620 00:34:19,225 --> 00:34:22,186 you go, "Like, wow, this cow acts just like my dog." 621 00:34:22,311 --> 00:34:25,565 And maybe even nicer sometimes. Heh. 622 00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:27,650 Like these-- These guys are so nice. 623 00:34:27,775 --> 00:34:29,277 It's like the only reason-- 624 00:34:29,402 --> 00:34:31,195 Like if I could bring 'em in the house, 625 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,574 they would just sit on the couch and fall asleep watching TV too. 626 00:34:34,699 --> 00:34:38,286 MAN: It should be required at every school that you go to a farm, 627 00:34:38,411 --> 00:34:40,955 and understand, you know, what's going on there 628 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,874 and understand the importance of these animals, 629 00:34:42,999 --> 00:34:46,043 And have that connection at a really young age, I think, 630 00:34:46,169 --> 00:34:50,298 is really, really something, that should be mandatory. 631 00:34:50,423 --> 00:34:52,675 HAVOK: I remember distinctly being a child 632 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,721 and realizing that a hot dog is a pig 633 00:34:56,846 --> 00:34:59,348 and a hamburger is a cow. 634 00:34:59,473 --> 00:35:02,310 And being pummeled by it and being upset, 635 00:35:02,393 --> 00:35:05,021 because I liked cows and I liked pigs, 636 00:35:05,146 --> 00:35:08,149 and they were nice and I didn't want to hurt them. 637 00:35:08,274 --> 00:35:10,484 And I remember my parents saying, "No, it's okay." 638 00:35:10,610 --> 00:35:12,987 And that's all it took, being a baby. 639 00:35:13,112 --> 00:35:16,616 [♪♪♪] 640 00:35:16,741 --> 00:35:19,410 ZOMBIE: You know, you're force-fed all this bullshit your whole life 641 00:35:19,535 --> 00:35:21,162 about how things are supposed to be: 642 00:35:21,287 --> 00:35:22,955 How you're supposed to look, how you're supposed to act, 643 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,166 what you're supposed to want, supposed to eat. 644 00:35:25,291 --> 00:35:27,376 And then you sort of, you know, 645 00:35:27,502 --> 00:35:29,462 discover punk rock and you go, wait a minute. 646 00:35:29,587 --> 00:35:31,631 Fuck all that shit. Heh. 647 00:35:31,756 --> 00:35:33,257 I never really thought about it, you know, 648 00:35:33,382 --> 00:35:35,635 the intersection of it all, until... 649 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,845 I guess it was... 650 00:35:37,970 --> 00:35:39,889 when I was living in New York in the early '80s, 651 00:35:40,014 --> 00:35:42,975 and there was a sort of crossover, like where... 652 00:35:43,100 --> 00:35:45,478 the Hari Krishnas and the skinheads, 653 00:35:45,603 --> 00:35:47,230 and the whole thing seemed like it all 654 00:35:47,313 --> 00:35:49,690 was like cooking in Tompkins Square Park. 655 00:35:49,815 --> 00:35:52,568 And that's what I would hear about it, you know. 656 00:35:52,693 --> 00:35:54,529 GREEN:The Cro-Mags were playing. 657 00:35:54,654 --> 00:35:57,365 And I was like, "Oh, wow!" You know, I already had the album, 658 00:35:57,490 --> 00:36:00,910 and I was really, really pumped, but I had no idea what to expect, 659 00:36:01,035 --> 00:36:03,955 because I'd never really gone to a show. 660 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,083 But going there, just was like a whole different energy. 661 00:36:07,208 --> 00:36:11,671 All these different people from different neighborhoods going to the show and... 662 00:36:11,796 --> 00:36:15,925 It was chaotic, you know-- everybody on stage and jumping all over the place, 663 00:36:16,008 --> 00:36:19,512 and just the energy on stage, it was just unforgettable. 664 00:36:19,637 --> 00:36:23,015 But I just always remember, at the end, there was like this bookstand, 665 00:36:23,140 --> 00:36:25,476 and was a lot of stuff about vegetarianism 666 00:36:25,601 --> 00:36:28,145 and Krishna and things like that. 667 00:36:28,312 --> 00:36:30,022 And that was like my first introduction. 668 00:36:30,147 --> 00:36:31,566 I was like, "Wow!" I was like, 669 00:36:31,691 --> 00:36:34,068 "That dude is, you know, believing in this?" 670 00:36:34,193 --> 00:36:38,155 And reading the lyrics and I was like, "Wow, it's really interesting." 671 00:36:38,322 --> 00:36:40,449 And that was like, really, it clicked in my head, 672 00:36:40,575 --> 00:36:42,577 to really just think about, you know, 673 00:36:42,702 --> 00:36:45,538 what I was eating or what was going on around me. 674 00:36:45,663 --> 00:36:48,249 The connection with the animals and people in general is, 675 00:36:48,374 --> 00:36:50,626 you know, gone back from beginning of time, 676 00:36:50,751 --> 00:36:53,337 and it's something that's, you can't really get away from. 677 00:36:53,462 --> 00:36:54,797 It's something so important, 678 00:36:54,922 --> 00:36:57,258 the development of society itself. 679 00:36:57,383 --> 00:37:01,179 You know, we learn so much from animals, and they're so important, 680 00:37:01,304 --> 00:37:03,431 but if you've ever lived with an animal or had a pet 681 00:37:03,556 --> 00:37:05,266 or have had people that had pets, 682 00:37:05,391 --> 00:37:07,935 they understand how powerful that love is. 683 00:37:08,060 --> 00:37:10,688 And to realize that they're a living species, 684 00:37:10,813 --> 00:37:12,940 and to have respect for that. 685 00:37:13,065 --> 00:37:15,193 HAVOK: I think it was a very natural progression 686 00:37:15,318 --> 00:37:17,820 for for punk rock to embrace vegetarianism 687 00:37:17,945 --> 00:37:21,407 because punk rockers are very conscious, 688 00:37:21,532 --> 00:37:23,201 and they're very mindful, 689 00:37:23,367 --> 00:37:26,829 and they actually are very compassionate. 690 00:37:26,913 --> 00:37:31,918 The whole punk rock community came out of resistance 691 00:37:32,043 --> 00:37:34,045 and a need for sanctuary. 692 00:37:39,008 --> 00:37:40,593 [♪♪♪] 693 00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:48,684 [♪♪♪] 694 00:38:09,747 --> 00:38:11,082 BAGEL: Hey, Moby. 695 00:38:11,207 --> 00:38:13,084 -Yeah? -BAGEL: What's this music? 696 00:38:13,209 --> 00:38:16,546 Oh. Actually, this is my music. 697 00:38:16,671 --> 00:38:18,464 -BAGEL: Really? -Yeah. 698 00:38:18,589 --> 00:38:21,342 -BAGEL: Huh. It's nice. -Thanks. 699 00:38:21,467 --> 00:38:24,679 BAGEL: So, you're like, uh, you're like the male Enya? 700 00:38:24,762 --> 00:38:27,682 I mean, I make a lot of different types of music. 701 00:38:27,807 --> 00:38:30,768 BAGEL: So, let me ask you this, if you make pretty Enya music, 702 00:38:30,893 --> 00:38:33,145 then why are you making a punk rock movie? 703 00:38:33,271 --> 00:38:36,566 Well, good question. 704 00:38:36,691 --> 00:38:39,360 As I said, I make a lot of different types of music, 705 00:38:39,485 --> 00:38:43,447 and some of the music I make is very quiet. 706 00:38:43,573 --> 00:38:45,950 But some of the music I make 707 00:38:46,075 --> 00:38:49,245 is actually... much more aggressive. 708 00:38:49,370 --> 00:38:50,955 When I was growing up, 709 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,083 I actually played in punk rock bands. 710 00:38:54,208 --> 00:38:58,379 Um, my first hardcore band was called the Vatican Commandos. 711 00:38:58,504 --> 00:39:04,010 And we played with a lot of the people in this movie: 712 00:39:04,135 --> 00:39:07,471 Ray, Porcell, John Joseph... 713 00:39:07,597 --> 00:39:09,432 I mean, they're-- the Bad Brains. 714 00:39:09,557 --> 00:39:11,058 Um, the Vatican Commandos 715 00:39:11,184 --> 00:39:13,936 actually opened up for a lot of these bands. 716 00:39:14,061 --> 00:39:15,730 So some of the people in the movie, I've known them 717 00:39:15,855 --> 00:39:18,774 since the early '80s. 718 00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:23,321 So, as much as I love electronic music, 719 00:39:23,446 --> 00:39:26,324 and as much as I have always loved electronic music, 720 00:39:26,449 --> 00:39:30,077 I also really love hardcore punk. 721 00:39:30,203 --> 00:39:34,457 And one of the things I've always found, 722 00:39:34,582 --> 00:39:36,125 the world of punk rock, 723 00:39:36,250 --> 00:39:39,337 it's the activism, you know, it's the politics, 724 00:39:39,504 --> 00:39:42,548 it's the animal rights aspect of punk rock 725 00:39:42,673 --> 00:39:44,842 that has always really inspired me. 726 00:39:44,967 --> 00:39:47,345 You know, a lot of musical genres 727 00:39:47,470 --> 00:39:49,597 are kind of neutral politically, 728 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,184 and I love that punk rock at it's core 729 00:39:53,309 --> 00:39:57,021 has this ethos of confrontation, 730 00:39:57,146 --> 00:40:00,358 this ethos of activism. 731 00:40:00,525 --> 00:40:02,777 You know what? Am I am I rambling on? 732 00:40:02,902 --> 00:40:05,154 [SNORING] 733 00:40:05,279 --> 00:40:06,697 Oh, okay. 734 00:40:06,822 --> 00:40:09,158 Because you ate your cucumbers, 735 00:40:09,283 --> 00:40:12,370 do you want me to get you more cucumbers? 736 00:40:12,495 --> 00:40:14,997 BAGEL: Uh, yes, thank you, boy-Enya. 737 00:40:18,209 --> 00:40:22,296 Aw! Are we resting? Yeah, we're resting in the spa. 738 00:40:22,421 --> 00:40:25,383 Let's have our cucumbers, okay. 739 00:40:25,508 --> 00:40:28,094 Oh. Yeah? Okay. 740 00:40:28,219 --> 00:40:29,887 It's supposed to be for your eyes, but, you know, 741 00:40:30,012 --> 00:40:31,472 you can eat it too. 742 00:40:51,742 --> 00:40:53,703 [♪♪♪] 743 00:41:09,844 --> 00:41:12,263 Being on the road with a band, 744 00:41:12,346 --> 00:41:14,182 when you're a vegetarian, 745 00:41:14,307 --> 00:41:16,267 in the '80s, 746 00:41:16,392 --> 00:41:17,935 was not easy. 747 00:41:18,060 --> 00:41:19,520 [♪♪♪] 748 00:41:26,819 --> 00:41:33,701 Yeah. You know, for years, I toured with a tub of miso. 749 00:41:33,784 --> 00:41:36,287 So you could go into a McDonald's, 750 00:41:36,412 --> 00:41:38,331 get their hot water, use their toilet, 751 00:41:38,456 --> 00:41:40,833 and just make miso soup, you know. 752 00:41:40,917 --> 00:41:42,293 And then we'd go to a health food store, 753 00:41:42,418 --> 00:41:43,836 I'd get sprouts and put sprouts 754 00:41:43,961 --> 00:41:45,171 in the miso soup. 755 00:41:45,296 --> 00:41:47,465 But truthfully, back then, 756 00:41:47,590 --> 00:41:50,468 touring, it was a lot of pasta. 757 00:41:50,593 --> 00:41:52,970 There was a lot of, like, you know, 758 00:41:53,095 --> 00:41:55,473 "Ray, you keep the guy at 7-Eleven busy 759 00:41:55,598 --> 00:41:59,060 while Mike Judge stuffs, you know, spaghetti down his pants." 760 00:41:59,185 --> 00:42:01,062 This was touring before we had money. 761 00:42:01,187 --> 00:42:03,314 And, you know, we booked our own tours and you play 762 00:42:03,439 --> 00:42:05,816 like, three shows a week and you're gone for four months 763 00:42:05,942 --> 00:42:08,528 and your van's always breaking down, You have no place to stay. 764 00:42:08,653 --> 00:42:12,698 I tried it in Germany in '82. Nobody was prepared for it. 765 00:42:12,823 --> 00:42:14,200 I remember our whole tour, I ate, 766 00:42:14,325 --> 00:42:16,827 you know, lettuce and brown bread. 767 00:42:16,953 --> 00:42:20,248 You know, and oil and vinegar. 768 00:42:21,916 --> 00:42:23,251 We brought our own juicer 769 00:42:23,376 --> 00:42:25,169 and we just tried to do the best we can. 770 00:42:25,294 --> 00:42:29,340 And people always know, you know, I always... 771 00:42:29,465 --> 00:42:31,592 I had some health problems, so I asked for bag of carrots. 772 00:42:31,717 --> 00:42:33,511 I had my own juicer. 773 00:42:33,636 --> 00:42:37,306 And you just have to be prepared. 774 00:42:37,431 --> 00:42:38,850 MacKAYE:We did a cross country tour 775 00:42:38,975 --> 00:42:41,102 and we broke down in Miles City, Montana, 776 00:42:41,227 --> 00:42:43,187 which is in eastern, northeastern Montana. 777 00:42:43,312 --> 00:42:45,898 There was nothing there. I was eating-- 778 00:42:46,023 --> 00:42:48,192 there was a Ben Franklin five and dime, 779 00:42:48,317 --> 00:42:51,904 had a lunch counter, and I ate deep fried breaded cauliflower. 780 00:42:52,029 --> 00:42:54,615 That was like one thing they had. And I ate cans of just... 781 00:42:54,740 --> 00:42:57,285 I would go to the grocery store and just buy cans of beets 782 00:42:57,410 --> 00:42:59,996 or like corn and just eat it cold. 783 00:43:00,121 --> 00:43:02,790 We had to travel with a bag of of rice, 784 00:43:02,915 --> 00:43:05,668 a bag of beans, and tahini sauce. 785 00:43:05,793 --> 00:43:10,464 And-- Whatever town we would pull into, 786 00:43:10,590 --> 00:43:12,091 we would buy vegetables 787 00:43:12,216 --> 00:43:14,886 and then we would look for a place to cook. 788 00:43:15,011 --> 00:43:17,221 We would cook everything in that single pot. 789 00:43:17,346 --> 00:43:19,891 So, every fucking day, unless, somebody cooked for us, 790 00:43:20,016 --> 00:43:23,144 which they did in some places, but most of the time... 791 00:43:23,269 --> 00:43:25,229 You learn to put the beans in first 792 00:43:25,354 --> 00:43:27,690 because they take the longest, then you put the rice, 793 00:43:27,815 --> 00:43:30,067 then you put your starchy vegetables. 794 00:43:30,193 --> 00:43:33,279 Then you put your greens and all that, 795 00:43:33,362 --> 00:43:36,574 and you just build a stack and it all cooks through. 796 00:43:36,699 --> 00:43:38,367 And then you just scoop it down, 797 00:43:38,492 --> 00:43:41,162 throw that shit in a bowl, put some fucking tahini sauce. 798 00:43:41,287 --> 00:43:44,290 We didn't have nutritional yeast, nothing. 799 00:43:44,415 --> 00:43:47,376 We add tamari and a little bit 800 00:43:47,502 --> 00:43:51,756 of sesame paste tahini, and that's what we ate. 801 00:43:51,839 --> 00:43:55,635 What Crass used to survive on was our own sandwiches that we used to take. 802 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,262 Or we used to go into those motorway service stations, 803 00:43:58,387 --> 00:44:00,723 and we'd just buy a loaf of sliced, white bread 804 00:44:00,848 --> 00:44:03,184 and four plates of chips and we'd share it. 805 00:44:03,309 --> 00:44:05,645 You know, and that was literally the food. 806 00:44:05,770 --> 00:44:07,813 You know, it just wasn't around. 807 00:44:07,939 --> 00:44:09,398 Or people would-- bless them-- 808 00:44:09,524 --> 00:44:13,361 people would make you a soup, a big soup 809 00:44:13,444 --> 00:44:15,071 at the gig, you know, and it's like, "Is this vegetarian?" 810 00:44:15,196 --> 00:44:16,531 "Yes." "No meat in this there?" 811 00:44:16,656 --> 00:44:18,574 "No, no, it's chicken." 812 00:44:18,699 --> 00:44:20,952 Yeah, but chicken is a, you know, it's... 813 00:44:21,077 --> 00:44:22,787 You know, you get that line in Europe, actually. 814 00:44:22,912 --> 00:44:24,413 They don't-- Or Japan. 815 00:44:24,539 --> 00:44:25,998 Oh, mate, that's a nightmare. 816 00:44:26,082 --> 00:44:27,667 Fish in every finger, Christ, no. Anyway... 817 00:44:27,792 --> 00:44:29,252 [STAMMERS] 818 00:44:29,377 --> 00:44:30,920 One time, we were in Southern Island, actually. 819 00:44:31,045 --> 00:44:33,548 We stopped at this place, this café. 820 00:44:33,673 --> 00:44:37,927 And, "You hadn't got any sort of vegetarian, have ya?" 821 00:44:38,052 --> 00:44:40,304 And this Irishman goes, "Yeah, there you go." And it was just the bun. 822 00:44:40,429 --> 00:44:42,098 [LAUGHING] 823 00:45:05,496 --> 00:45:09,000 Our sustenance came from stopping at grocery stores, 824 00:45:09,125 --> 00:45:13,629 and getting soy milk out of the little hippie section, 825 00:45:13,754 --> 00:45:16,507 and buying cereal and just pouring it 826 00:45:16,632 --> 00:45:18,134 in our mouth, so we didn't get the-- 827 00:45:18,217 --> 00:45:19,844 Because you didn't want to buy a bunch of bowls 828 00:45:19,969 --> 00:45:21,470 and you couldn't really afford to, so you pour 829 00:45:21,596 --> 00:45:24,015 the cereal in the mouth, milk in the mouth. 830 00:45:24,140 --> 00:45:26,267 The hardest was definitely-- 831 00:45:26,392 --> 00:45:28,561 In certain places they don't know anything 832 00:45:28,686 --> 00:45:31,939 about plant based food, 833 00:45:32,064 --> 00:45:34,984 or anything like that lifestyle. 834 00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:37,028 Actually going to Brazil and moving there, 835 00:45:37,153 --> 00:45:38,738 and getting there and they're like, 836 00:45:38,863 --> 00:45:40,323 "Well, here's a pizza," 837 00:45:40,448 --> 00:45:42,158 with all these different things on there. 838 00:45:42,283 --> 00:45:44,076 And it was like, "Yeah, but that's..." 839 00:45:44,202 --> 00:45:46,078 They're like, "But there's no meat, there's no beef on it." 840 00:45:46,204 --> 00:45:48,331 I am like, "Yeah, I can't eat that." 841 00:45:48,456 --> 00:45:50,750 They take it back, peel everything off. 842 00:45:50,875 --> 00:45:53,461 Come back, like, "Here you are, sir. Voila!" 843 00:45:53,586 --> 00:45:55,546 And it's just like-- I ain't eating that. 844 00:45:55,671 --> 00:45:58,466 You know, just like, it was just like layered in like, 845 00:45:58,591 --> 00:46:00,968 all sorts of like chicken or whatever, 846 00:46:01,093 --> 00:46:04,055 like fat, extra... God knows, but... 847 00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:05,973 Just trying to relate that through 848 00:46:06,098 --> 00:46:07,975 and just like starving at that moment, just, 849 00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:11,187 "Okay, I guess I'm not going to eat today," you know. 850 00:46:11,312 --> 00:46:12,855 [♪♪♪] 851 00:46:16,108 --> 00:46:17,235 Oh, hello there. 852 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:18,819 Welcome to another edition 853 00:46:18,945 --> 00:46:22,365 of Choral Roundup, with me, your host, Richard Hall. 854 00:46:22,490 --> 00:46:24,742 On this week's Choral Roundup, 855 00:46:24,867 --> 00:46:27,328 we will be looking at a classic staple 856 00:46:27,453 --> 00:46:30,581 of the hardcore punk canon, "Cats and Dogs", 857 00:46:30,706 --> 00:46:34,085 as originally written by Walter Schreifels and Gorilla Biscuits. 858 00:46:34,210 --> 00:46:37,046 ["CATS AND DOGS"] 859 00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:46,722 Today's choral rendition 860 00:46:46,848 --> 00:46:50,226 will be brought to you by the Animal Liberation Choir, 861 00:46:50,351 --> 00:46:52,520 and they're performing here in California, 862 00:46:52,645 --> 00:46:54,730 at Gentle Barn. 863 00:46:54,856 --> 00:46:58,901 Lyrically, the Gorilla Biscuits and Mr. Schreifels 864 00:46:59,026 --> 00:47:00,903 used this song as an opportunity 865 00:47:01,028 --> 00:47:02,947 to look at what we can consider, 866 00:47:03,072 --> 00:47:05,741 a central schism in the way 867 00:47:05,867 --> 00:47:07,702 in which many people relate to animals. 868 00:47:07,827 --> 00:47:10,079 For many people, they love animals, 869 00:47:10,204 --> 00:47:11,831 they love their companion animals, 870 00:47:11,956 --> 00:47:15,001 but they continue to kill and eat other animals. 871 00:47:15,126 --> 00:47:18,296 And I really do feel like Mr. Schreifels and the Gorilla Biscuits 872 00:47:18,421 --> 00:47:23,050 did a very searching, poetic job 873 00:47:23,176 --> 00:47:24,677 in looking at this schism. 874 00:47:24,802 --> 00:47:26,971 So, without further ado, 875 00:47:27,096 --> 00:47:29,307 here's "Cats and Dogs", as performed 876 00:47:29,432 --> 00:47:32,310 by the Animal Liberation Choir, here at Gentle Barn. 877 00:48:55,518 --> 00:48:57,854 [OINKING] 878 00:48:57,979 --> 00:48:59,522 [♪♪♪] 879 00:49:25,423 --> 00:49:29,385 In the mid-'90s, there was sort of this, like, 880 00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:32,221 um, revolution of... 881 00:49:32,305 --> 00:49:34,724 just a million vegan straight edge bands. 882 00:49:34,849 --> 00:49:38,477 [♪♪♪] 883 00:49:38,603 --> 00:49:40,980 Earth Crisis would be the first time that 884 00:49:41,105 --> 00:49:43,482 I saw the word vegan. 885 00:49:43,608 --> 00:49:46,235 I remember it seemed so underground at the time, 886 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,405 and I remember friends debating 887 00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:51,574 how the word was even pronounced. 888 00:49:51,699 --> 00:49:53,868 Because it wasn't in the dictionary at the time. 889 00:49:53,993 --> 00:49:56,579 AMY LEE:So I thought vegan meant like a mad vegetarian. 890 00:49:56,704 --> 00:49:58,039 [LAUGHS] 891 00:49:58,164 --> 00:50:00,208 Not necessary that you didn't eat dairy. 892 00:50:00,333 --> 00:50:02,126 ANDY HURLEY: Earth Crisis was kind of the band 893 00:50:02,251 --> 00:50:05,171 that was like, brought this heaviness. 894 00:50:05,296 --> 00:50:07,965 They were like so heavy, but they were also vegan straight edge 895 00:50:08,132 --> 00:50:11,844 and into, like, political issues that I was really into 896 00:50:11,969 --> 00:50:15,389 because of Rage Against the Machine and stuff like that. 897 00:50:15,515 --> 00:50:17,517 I mean, for me, it was never about the nihilism. 898 00:50:17,642 --> 00:50:19,352 It was always about the politics, 899 00:50:19,477 --> 00:50:21,687 and the, you know, human rights issues 900 00:50:21,812 --> 00:50:24,440 and the animal rights issues and things like that. 901 00:50:24,565 --> 00:50:28,569 I mean, Earth Crisis was the most, I feel like, 902 00:50:28,694 --> 00:50:30,530 um, the biggest advocates for it. 903 00:50:30,655 --> 00:50:32,782 It was a central part of what they were singing about. 904 00:50:32,907 --> 00:50:34,283 Where, some bands were just kind of, 905 00:50:34,408 --> 00:50:36,244 "We are this," and "Let me think about this." 906 00:50:36,369 --> 00:50:38,663 You know, or, "We have this one song about it." 907 00:50:38,788 --> 00:50:40,581 You know, but they were one of the bands 908 00:50:40,706 --> 00:50:43,668 that were more, more direct. 909 00:50:43,793 --> 00:50:45,086 And more... 910 00:50:45,211 --> 00:50:47,463 Their songs were like... 911 00:50:47,588 --> 00:50:50,883 I mean, their songs were about burning down slaughterhouses. 912 00:50:51,008 --> 00:50:53,594 You know, what I mean? They were like, pulling no punches. 913 00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,012 The first song we're gonna play 914 00:50:55,179 --> 00:50:56,681 is one we just made up before our tour. 915 00:50:56,806 --> 00:50:58,891 It's about veganism. It's called "New Ethic". 916 00:51:01,352 --> 00:51:04,146 This is the new ethic! 917 00:51:04,272 --> 00:51:08,234 Animals' lives are their own 918 00:51:08,359 --> 00:51:13,030 And must be given respect 919 00:51:13,197 --> 00:51:14,657 SCOTT CROUSE:Of course, we never thought Earth Crisis 920 00:51:14,782 --> 00:51:16,200 was gonna be as popular as it was. 921 00:51:16,325 --> 00:51:17,869 And I think, when we started, 922 00:51:17,994 --> 00:51:19,370 we were just trying to impress our friends, 923 00:51:19,495 --> 00:51:22,164 really, like, we-- like, most bands. 924 00:51:22,290 --> 00:51:24,125 A switch was flipped at some point when we realized 925 00:51:24,250 --> 00:51:26,127 this was popular and we felt, 926 00:51:26,252 --> 00:51:27,837 you know, this was getting a little bit popular. 927 00:51:27,962 --> 00:51:30,464 And we felt like we had a... 928 00:51:30,590 --> 00:51:33,176 a duty, you know, and we were on a mission. 929 00:51:33,301 --> 00:51:35,052 We're like, we're going to educate people on animal rights. 930 00:51:35,178 --> 00:51:37,555 Like, that's going to be the focus of our band. 931 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,516 But when we first started, I mean, it really was, 932 00:51:40,641 --> 00:51:42,393 it wasn't so much of a mission when we first started it. 933 00:51:42,518 --> 00:51:44,228 It really was like, "Oh, this is going to be fun." 934 00:51:44,353 --> 00:51:46,397 We're gonna celebrate veganism together 935 00:51:46,522 --> 00:51:48,065 with our friends at these shows and we're going to have 936 00:51:48,232 --> 00:51:52,528 some wild songs about animal rights, you know. 937 00:51:52,653 --> 00:51:54,614 But then, yeah, I'd say somewhere around '93, 938 00:51:54,739 --> 00:51:56,991 we really started to take it a little more seriously. 939 00:51:57,116 --> 00:52:00,161 We understood the weight that we had, and the impact that we're having, 940 00:52:00,286 --> 00:52:02,079 and the responsibility that we had. 941 00:52:02,246 --> 00:52:03,831 Then we took it real seriously. 942 00:52:03,956 --> 00:52:05,875 Maybe, maybe too seriously, at times. 943 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,044 Heh. Possibly. 944 00:52:08,127 --> 00:52:11,088 When I became a vegan it was very much like an animal rights thing. 945 00:52:11,214 --> 00:52:13,090 It was very much about animal liberation. 946 00:52:14,967 --> 00:52:16,677 There was definitely bands like 7 Seconds 947 00:52:16,802 --> 00:52:19,055 and that whole like, "Cats and Dogs" by Gorilla Biscuits. 948 00:52:19,180 --> 00:52:22,308 And "No More" with Youth Of Today. 949 00:52:22,433 --> 00:52:25,186 That was definitely stuff that inspired me to stop eating meat. 950 00:52:25,311 --> 00:52:27,688 Punk music was a very conscious movement, 951 00:52:27,813 --> 00:52:29,398 a social and political conscious movement. 952 00:52:29,524 --> 00:52:31,817 I think out of all, there were few songs we ever wrote, 953 00:52:31,943 --> 00:52:34,278 there's like one song that talks about animal rights. 954 00:52:34,403 --> 00:52:38,324 But everything else is about, like, you know politics, like, you know. 955 00:52:38,449 --> 00:52:40,243 Punk rock got me into politics, 956 00:52:40,368 --> 00:52:46,082 punk rock got me into, you know, social justice, anti-racism, 957 00:52:46,207 --> 00:52:47,875 ah, women's rights. 958 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,962 Whatever, you know, and economic justice, 959 00:52:51,087 --> 00:52:53,589 what have you, anarchism, left wing politics, 960 00:52:53,714 --> 00:52:56,259 animal rights and vegetarianism 961 00:52:56,384 --> 00:52:57,969 and the importance of that. 962 00:52:58,094 --> 00:53:00,763 Bands told me about that kind of stuff. 963 00:53:00,888 --> 00:53:03,683 That's why I got interested. 964 00:53:03,808 --> 00:53:07,019 They spoke the same language as I did, 965 00:53:07,144 --> 00:53:09,272 they talked about the same issues. 966 00:53:09,397 --> 00:53:10,857 I got introduced to the concepts 967 00:53:10,982 --> 00:53:14,402 of environmentalism through hardcore shows. 968 00:53:14,527 --> 00:53:17,154 The concepts around like "sweatshop" 969 00:53:17,321 --> 00:53:21,033 you know, "fair trade", all of that came through... 970 00:53:21,158 --> 00:53:23,661 um, a shitty bowling alley in Chicago 971 00:53:23,786 --> 00:53:25,371 and a guy screaming into a microphone 972 00:53:25,496 --> 00:53:27,790 telling people what the song was about 973 00:53:27,915 --> 00:53:29,041 before he screamed it. 974 00:53:29,041 --> 00:53:30,960 [CROWD CHEERING] 975 00:53:31,085 --> 00:53:32,420 Usually, back at the merch table it was like 976 00:53:32,545 --> 00:53:34,881 a seven inch and a patch and T-shirt, 977 00:53:34,964 --> 00:53:37,175 but then maybe a pamphlet about like, what was happening 978 00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:38,467 in this third world country 979 00:53:38,593 --> 00:53:40,887 and American colonialism, or... 980 00:53:40,970 --> 00:53:42,305 And then almost always, 981 00:53:42,430 --> 00:53:44,599 there was something about animal rights. 982 00:53:44,724 --> 00:53:46,642 TOBY MORSE:They were handing out PETA pamphlets at some of the shows. 983 00:53:46,726 --> 00:53:48,519 There was this consciousness back then, 984 00:53:48,644 --> 00:53:50,271 before it became trendy and popular, 985 00:53:50,396 --> 00:53:51,981 with the animals and with being drug free 986 00:53:52,106 --> 00:53:54,525 and veganism and all that. It came... 987 00:53:54,650 --> 00:53:56,194 I don't know how I got into hardcore but that's where, 988 00:53:56,319 --> 00:53:58,112 that's where I found it, and I feel like... 989 00:53:58,237 --> 00:54:00,531 That was a big part of music before it became trendy. 990 00:54:00,656 --> 00:54:02,408 It was the punk rock and hardcore was really pushing 991 00:54:02,533 --> 00:54:04,911 that consciousness, you know, and... 992 00:54:05,036 --> 00:54:06,913 I think it's a natural progression 993 00:54:07,038 --> 00:54:11,876 for some of the early punk rock people, 994 00:54:12,001 --> 00:54:14,504 some of the icons that took part in that movement, 995 00:54:14,629 --> 00:54:16,380 they were outspoken 996 00:54:16,506 --> 00:54:19,300 with their politics, with their views, 997 00:54:19,425 --> 00:54:22,803 with what matters to them, and they said it loudly. 998 00:54:22,929 --> 00:54:26,557 And I don't think that the nature of the artist changes 999 00:54:26,682 --> 00:54:28,351 and I don't think the nature of someone wanting 1000 00:54:28,476 --> 00:54:31,229 to get a message across loudly changes, 1001 00:54:31,354 --> 00:54:32,855 if that's who they are, at their core. 1002 00:54:34,273 --> 00:54:36,067 HURLEY:Punk, for me, and hardcore 1003 00:54:36,192 --> 00:54:38,611 was always kind of a rallying cry 1004 00:54:38,694 --> 00:54:41,113 against those things and a way for me 1005 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,407 to link up with a community of people 1006 00:54:43,533 --> 00:54:46,869 who kind of have similar ideas. 1007 00:54:46,953 --> 00:54:50,414 We're thinking about things in a different perspective. 1008 00:54:50,540 --> 00:54:52,124 We're not just accepting. 1009 00:54:52,250 --> 00:54:53,876 In our parents and their generation, 1010 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:55,837 a lot of people, they just accepted what they were told. 1011 00:54:55,962 --> 00:54:57,588 And we were like, "Okay, well, let me think about that." 1012 00:54:57,713 --> 00:55:01,801 [STAMMERS] Is that really the best way to live our lives? 1013 00:55:01,926 --> 00:55:04,637 I think it's just the idea of a counterculture. 1014 00:55:04,762 --> 00:55:09,225 You know, I think punk rock is is always gone against the grain, obviously. 1015 00:55:09,350 --> 00:55:11,185 And it's rethinking what you've been taught-- 1016 00:55:11,310 --> 00:55:13,771 what your parents are telling you, school is telling you-- 1017 00:55:13,896 --> 00:55:17,400 you take it and you examine it. Are these things true? 1018 00:55:17,483 --> 00:55:19,694 So...I think it's a logical step 1019 00:55:19,819 --> 00:55:21,529 that you would look into what you're eating. 1020 00:55:21,654 --> 00:55:23,197 You know, is this true? You know... 1021 00:55:23,322 --> 00:55:25,241 Is this the way that we have to live? 1022 00:55:25,366 --> 00:55:27,618 Is this the right thing to do? Is this the only way? 1023 00:55:27,743 --> 00:55:31,205 Is this the only thing that's healthy for us to do? 1024 00:55:31,330 --> 00:55:35,459 Punk and hardcore confronts preconceptions and always kind of has. 1025 00:55:35,585 --> 00:55:38,379 It's taken something that we've accepted as a norm 1026 00:55:38,504 --> 00:55:41,132 and challenged those things. 1027 00:55:41,257 --> 00:55:43,509 It makes sense to me in retrospect that animal rights 1028 00:55:43,634 --> 00:55:46,262 was something that was going to find a home 1029 00:55:46,387 --> 00:55:49,849 in that environment where punk rock bands were confrontational, 1030 00:55:49,974 --> 00:55:51,642 and they were willing to talk about things that they felt 1031 00:55:51,767 --> 00:55:54,145 weren't being talked about or weren't being represented. 1032 00:55:54,270 --> 00:55:56,564 Punk rock, in itself, was music that was created 1033 00:55:56,689 --> 00:55:58,399 because it was people that felt 1034 00:55:58,524 --> 00:56:00,401 like they weren't represented in mainstream media. 1035 00:56:00,526 --> 00:56:05,489 And so, in order to find that home, that sanctuary, 1036 00:56:05,615 --> 00:56:06,991 they just created something. 1037 00:56:07,116 --> 00:56:10,828 Animal rights from a justice perspective, 1038 00:56:10,953 --> 00:56:12,288 and a punk rock perspective, 1039 00:56:12,413 --> 00:56:14,665 made so much sense to me. 1040 00:56:14,790 --> 00:56:16,918 [♪♪♪] 1041 00:56:17,043 --> 00:56:20,296 If you're already seeing the world in this materialistic way 1042 00:56:20,421 --> 00:56:22,798 and you see how people are getting exploited 1043 00:56:22,924 --> 00:56:24,592 by capitalists for profits, 1044 00:56:24,717 --> 00:56:29,263 and then you see animals getting exploited for profit. 1045 00:56:29,388 --> 00:56:33,768 But they could not speak for themselves. 1046 00:56:33,893 --> 00:56:36,145 Not only do the animals feel it, 1047 00:56:36,270 --> 00:56:38,814 not only is it completely inhumane, 1048 00:56:38,940 --> 00:56:43,569 they're born into tiny little enslavement camps. 1049 00:56:46,948 --> 00:56:51,202 And it's because their only job is to be slaughtered, 1050 00:56:51,327 --> 00:56:53,538 and the people in control 1051 00:56:53,663 --> 00:56:55,373 don't care how they're slaughtered. 1052 00:56:55,498 --> 00:56:56,791 It's the fastest turnaround. 1053 00:56:56,916 --> 00:56:59,377 [♪♪♪] 1054 00:57:06,300 --> 00:57:08,052 And it's inconvenient to switch that up. 1055 00:57:08,177 --> 00:57:10,054 You're socialized with it, it's the food you're used to, 1056 00:57:10,179 --> 00:57:12,723 it's the lifestyle you're used to. 1057 00:57:12,849 --> 00:57:14,225 But if it never made any sense, 1058 00:57:14,350 --> 00:57:16,227 then fuck it, like, it doesn't have to, 1059 00:57:16,352 --> 00:57:19,856 nothing has to be just the way it is or as told to you. 1060 00:57:19,981 --> 00:57:23,150 So, I went vegan. I was vegetarian already. 1061 00:57:23,276 --> 00:57:25,027 And seeing how many more things were, 1062 00:57:25,152 --> 00:57:27,196 for the reasons I was vegetarian were still basically 1063 00:57:27,321 --> 00:57:29,407 just as awful, involved-- 1064 00:57:29,532 --> 00:57:33,786 owning and creating an animal to keep it in misery, you know. 1065 00:57:33,911 --> 00:57:36,956 There's an economy built around the things you don't like. 1066 00:57:37,081 --> 00:57:39,250 And it's not just why you're singing a song or... 1067 00:57:39,375 --> 00:57:41,586 stage-diving off of something, like you'd go away. 1068 00:57:41,711 --> 00:57:43,921 Thirty years from now, in your life, as you have kids, 1069 00:57:44,046 --> 00:57:46,215 that's an economy that's there behind everything. 1070 00:57:46,340 --> 00:57:49,093 So you learn what is attached to that, and... 1071 00:57:49,218 --> 00:57:51,846 Like I said of things, realities you don't want to see, 1072 00:57:51,971 --> 00:57:54,348 you don't pay for ever again. 1073 00:57:54,473 --> 00:57:56,058 Like, I saw that and I thought I'd never want to do that. 1074 00:57:56,184 --> 00:57:58,394 I'm stopping that forever and did. 1075 00:58:00,396 --> 00:58:03,608 I feel that people who... 1076 00:58:03,691 --> 00:58:07,445 experience hardship can empathize. 1077 00:58:07,570 --> 00:58:09,447 So, if you're introduced to the concept, 1078 00:58:09,614 --> 00:58:11,782 I think, you can relate. 1079 00:58:11,908 --> 00:58:14,035 I was living in the Bronx and I was coming out 1080 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,287 of the graffiti painting train scene 1081 00:58:16,412 --> 00:58:19,290 and had I introduced myself to punk, like I was saying, 1082 00:58:19,415 --> 00:58:20,666 and no one would go with me. 1083 00:58:20,791 --> 00:58:22,502 So I just went to Danceteria. 1084 00:58:22,627 --> 00:58:24,545 By that point, I had a mohawk, my friends in the Bronx 1085 00:58:24,670 --> 00:58:26,964 were starting to be like, "I can't really deal with you." 1086 00:58:27,089 --> 00:58:29,550 I was like, "Whatever!" And I'd just take myself 1087 00:58:29,675 --> 00:58:31,177 to Danceteria every weekend. 1088 00:58:31,302 --> 00:58:32,595 They would let me in and I'd just kind of like 1089 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:34,430 be a fly on the wall and walk around. 1090 00:58:34,555 --> 00:58:36,140 [♪♪♪] 1091 00:58:36,265 --> 00:58:38,809 And just literally shaped my musical taste 1092 00:58:38,935 --> 00:58:40,269 off of what I saw there 1093 00:58:40,394 --> 00:58:42,605 and the bands on people's jackets. 1094 00:58:44,482 --> 00:58:47,068 There was always a thing of empathy with animals, 1095 00:58:47,151 --> 00:58:49,529 before I realized that you didn't have to eat 'em. 1096 00:58:49,654 --> 00:58:51,280 When I got introduced to it, 1097 00:58:51,405 --> 00:58:53,491 there was that undercurrent as well. 1098 00:58:53,616 --> 00:58:56,494 We're marginalized, we're outside. 1099 00:58:56,619 --> 00:58:59,497 We don't have the power that we feel like all, everyone should have. 1100 00:58:59,622 --> 00:59:01,582 And then you start to realize that it extends 1101 00:59:01,707 --> 00:59:06,170 to things-- you see that animals are in the same boat. 1102 00:59:06,295 --> 00:59:10,842 NAVARRO: It's sad that it takes footage of dogs 1103 00:59:10,967 --> 00:59:13,594 crammed in tiny little cages 1104 00:59:13,719 --> 00:59:16,305 to make Americans go, "Oh, well, that's terrible!" 1105 00:59:16,389 --> 00:59:18,808 Because now it's an animal that could potentially be my friend. 1106 00:59:18,933 --> 00:59:22,687 But that doesn't mean that the baby seal 1107 00:59:22,812 --> 00:59:25,523 is just charging through it, no problem. 1108 00:59:25,648 --> 00:59:27,191 If you're saying to me that the dog 1109 00:59:27,316 --> 00:59:31,028 has the ability to feel fear and love and pain, 1110 00:59:31,153 --> 00:59:34,407 and that's why your heart goes out to that trade? 1111 00:59:34,532 --> 00:59:36,200 All animals feel that. 1112 00:59:36,325 --> 00:59:37,827 [♪♪♪] 1113 00:59:45,084 --> 00:59:48,546 My band was on tour in the U.K. 1114 00:59:48,671 --> 00:59:50,423 We were doing Glastonbury, I believe. 1115 00:59:50,548 --> 00:59:53,718 The bus pulled over in the English countryside 1116 00:59:53,843 --> 00:59:56,012 for everyone to stretch their legs. 1117 00:59:56,137 --> 00:59:57,763 And everyone got out, 1118 00:59:57,889 --> 01:00:00,766 and we just happened to be next to a cow pasture. 1119 01:00:00,892 --> 01:00:02,977 And it was the old school kind of fences, 1120 01:00:02,977 --> 01:00:05,771 where the cows could come over and kind of stick their heads over the fence, 1121 01:00:05,897 --> 01:00:07,857 and we all went over to say hi to the cows. 1122 01:00:07,982 --> 01:00:09,692 And one of our crew guys who'd been with us 1123 01:00:09,817 --> 01:00:11,777 for a long time jokingly said, 1124 01:00:11,903 --> 01:00:14,113 "Mmm, I'm going to eat you later." 1125 01:00:14,238 --> 01:00:15,698 You know, everyone giggled. 1126 01:00:15,823 --> 01:00:17,491 And I had this kind of moment. 1127 01:00:17,617 --> 01:00:20,369 This internal-like thing. This spark. 1128 01:00:20,494 --> 01:00:22,330 Something happened. I went back on the bus. 1129 01:00:22,455 --> 01:00:25,458 I remember going back on the bus and just having a moment by myself. 1130 01:00:25,583 --> 01:00:27,210 All these seeds had been planted. 1131 01:00:27,251 --> 01:00:29,253 And I always knew there was something bad going on, over here. 1132 01:00:29,378 --> 01:00:31,214 And I just chose not to look at it. 1133 01:00:31,339 --> 01:00:32,882 We know there's stuff happening over here 1134 01:00:33,007 --> 01:00:35,468 that we wouldn't be okay being part of. 1135 01:00:35,593 --> 01:00:37,136 So what we do is, we don't look at it. 1136 01:00:37,261 --> 01:00:38,513 We just put it over here, 1137 01:00:38,638 --> 01:00:42,558 and at a certain point, internally, 1138 01:00:42,683 --> 01:00:44,602 I couldn't do that anymore. 1139 01:00:44,727 --> 01:00:47,104 [♪♪♪] 1140 01:00:49,315 --> 01:00:52,652 [PIGS GRUNTING] 1141 01:00:52,777 --> 01:00:54,695 KAT VON D:I would feel it would be criminal for me not to stand up 1142 01:00:54,820 --> 01:00:57,240 and say something for somebody who needed that help, right? 1143 01:00:57,365 --> 01:00:59,867 So, what's the difference between that and a being 1144 01:00:59,992 --> 01:01:03,788 that isn't capable to speak out or walk out, 1145 01:01:03,913 --> 01:01:05,748 and I think it is our responsibility to protect 1146 01:01:05,873 --> 01:01:09,210 these animals in that sense. 1147 01:01:09,335 --> 01:01:11,838 I was one of the people that in the beginning stages like that, 1148 01:01:11,963 --> 01:01:14,382 that veganism was about your diet. 1149 01:01:14,507 --> 01:01:16,217 It was just about what you ate and that's it. 1150 01:01:16,342 --> 01:01:17,969 And the more and more I learned about it, 1151 01:01:18,094 --> 01:01:20,137 obviously, it's so much more than that. 1152 01:01:20,263 --> 01:01:22,390 What you put on your plate is like an asterisk 1153 01:01:22,515 --> 01:01:24,851 when it comes to being vegan, because it's about 1154 01:01:24,976 --> 01:01:26,853 making a conscious choice 1155 01:01:26,978 --> 01:01:31,732 that affects everything from how you eat to what you wear. 1156 01:01:31,858 --> 01:01:34,569 And we tend to exploit animals in so many different ways 1157 01:01:34,694 --> 01:01:39,073 that I don't think a majority of people realize. 1158 01:01:39,198 --> 01:01:42,118 KEEGAN KUHN: Animal agriculture is the most destructive industry on the planet. 1159 01:01:42,243 --> 01:01:44,620 It's the leading cause of climate change, deforestation, 1160 01:01:44,704 --> 01:01:47,123 topsoil erosion, water pollution, species extinction-- 1161 01:01:47,248 --> 01:01:48,875 literally anything you care about the environmental world, 1162 01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,918 animal agriculture is at the forefront. 1163 01:01:54,046 --> 01:01:56,007 I was super fortunate I was born vegetarian. 1164 01:01:56,132 --> 01:01:58,384 So, I've never eaten animals, and we were raised 1165 01:01:58,509 --> 01:02:01,262 with two rules in my house which was: 1166 01:02:01,387 --> 01:02:03,472 Question authority and don't hurt anybody. 1167 01:02:03,598 --> 01:02:07,560 And I found out about veganism through the punk hardcore scene. 1168 01:02:07,685 --> 01:02:10,897 There was a band, Earth Crisis. On the back of their record"All Out War", 1169 01:02:11,022 --> 01:02:12,732 it said: Go vegan. 1170 01:02:12,857 --> 01:02:14,483 And that was the first time I'd ever seen the word. 1171 01:02:14,609 --> 01:02:16,444 I was like what's that? And then I started finding out 1172 01:02:16,569 --> 01:02:18,237 about it and was like, oh, that makes perfect sense. 1173 01:02:18,362 --> 01:02:20,489 It's perfectly in line with what I have been raised 1174 01:02:20,615 --> 01:02:22,950 to believe and what I truly believe. 1175 01:02:23,075 --> 01:02:25,369 [BAND ON STAGE PLAYING PUNK MUSIC] 1176 01:02:32,001 --> 01:02:33,794 That's what punk rock was about. 1177 01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,172 Punk rock was saying "fuck you" to the establishment. 1178 01:02:36,297 --> 01:02:38,341 There was nothing more punk rock than saying, 1179 01:02:38,466 --> 01:02:40,468 "Fuck you, I ain't going to eat dead animals." 1180 01:02:40,593 --> 01:02:42,386 "I'm not going to drink that cow's milk." 1181 01:02:42,512 --> 01:02:44,013 "I'm not going to take that chickens eggs, 1182 01:02:44,138 --> 01:02:46,224 or the fish or any of this shit." 1183 01:02:46,349 --> 01:02:49,227 CAPPO: Punk which was crazy and cutting edge and brought out 1184 01:02:49,352 --> 01:02:52,688 this whole side of me that was sort of like against the grain. 1185 01:02:55,191 --> 01:02:58,361 For me, there was a connection between, "I love this dog", 1186 01:02:58,486 --> 01:03:00,613 "I give this dog a name." 1187 01:03:00,738 --> 01:03:02,448 You know, and, um, 1188 01:03:02,573 --> 01:03:06,118 "He's a person. He is man's best friend." 1189 01:03:06,244 --> 01:03:13,000 Yet, this other animal in another shape is a commodity. 1190 01:03:13,125 --> 01:03:16,379 And this is what's being taught, and as a young adult, 1191 01:03:16,504 --> 01:03:19,632 I was thinking, that makes no sense whatsoever. 1192 01:03:19,757 --> 01:03:21,717 I went to the library and found a book 1193 01:03:21,843 --> 01:03:24,512 called "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer. 1194 01:03:24,637 --> 01:03:26,430 And I thought, 1195 01:03:26,556 --> 01:03:30,017 "Oh, wow. This makes the most sense I ever heard." 1196 01:03:34,856 --> 01:03:36,607 [METAL CLANGING] 1197 01:03:40,862 --> 01:03:42,446 [PIGS GRUNTING] 1198 01:03:45,032 --> 01:03:47,368 [PIGS SQUEALING] 1199 01:03:50,246 --> 01:03:52,748 JOSEPH: Why do you think they move the animals at night? 1200 01:03:52,874 --> 01:03:55,418 They don't want you to see what the fuck is going on. 1201 01:03:55,543 --> 01:03:58,254 Now they made it federal offense to go in there now and film. 1202 01:03:58,379 --> 01:03:59,964 Why the fuck you think that is? 1203 01:04:00,089 --> 01:04:02,717 You run an abattoir, you run a slaughterhouse, 1204 01:04:02,842 --> 01:04:04,427 and you don't want videos 1205 01:04:04,552 --> 01:04:06,137 going out of what goes on there. 1206 01:04:06,262 --> 01:04:07,722 I love the old joke of, 1207 01:04:07,847 --> 01:04:09,432 does a cow farmer care 1208 01:04:09,557 --> 01:04:12,935 that you're filming the picking of kale? 1209 01:04:13,060 --> 01:04:14,312 Well, why don't you want somebody to see something? 1210 01:04:14,437 --> 01:04:15,813 Because you know something's wrong. 1211 01:04:15,938 --> 01:04:17,732 [♪♪♪] 1212 01:04:17,857 --> 01:04:20,568 I've seen violence and there's nothing beautiful about it. 1213 01:04:20,693 --> 01:04:23,779 There's nothing glamorous or glorious about it. 1214 01:04:23,905 --> 01:04:26,324 VEGA:I'd seen enough videos 1215 01:04:26,449 --> 01:04:28,826 of things that just shook me to my core. 1216 01:04:28,951 --> 01:04:31,704 Every year, I make my goals for the year and I vowed to myself 1217 01:04:31,829 --> 01:04:35,208 to be a more eloquent voice for animals. 1218 01:04:35,333 --> 01:04:37,793 Every year, and just get better and better at it, you know. 1219 01:04:37,919 --> 01:04:39,420 [♪♪♪] 1220 01:04:39,545 --> 01:04:41,506 And no matter how challenging it is, 1221 01:04:41,631 --> 01:04:43,758 like, I am at the age where you can't back down 1222 01:04:43,883 --> 01:04:45,885 from those challenges-- you have to do them. 1223 01:04:46,010 --> 01:04:48,554 VON D: These animals are living in complete suffering 1224 01:04:48,679 --> 01:04:50,973 and without the light at the end of the tunnel, you know. 1225 01:04:51,098 --> 01:04:54,143 There isn't like, "Okay, cool, you've suffered enough. Here's--" 1226 01:04:54,268 --> 01:04:56,062 It's like, "No, your prize is to die." 1227 01:04:56,187 --> 01:04:58,981 And it's just a, it's a hard pill to swallow. 1228 01:04:59,106 --> 01:05:01,442 I think the biggest struggle for me is, um, 1229 01:05:01,567 --> 01:05:04,779 you know, feeling like I'm in a constant state of mourning. 1230 01:05:04,904 --> 01:05:07,365 And because, you know, 1231 01:05:07,490 --> 01:05:10,451 that can really make it hard sometimes to enjoy life, 1232 01:05:10,576 --> 01:05:12,954 when you know that there's like so much suffering happening. 1233 01:05:13,079 --> 01:05:14,830 [♪♪♪] 1234 01:05:14,956 --> 01:05:17,500 NAVARRO: What mankind does to these animals, 1235 01:05:17,625 --> 01:05:19,919 how they get the food source, 1236 01:05:20,044 --> 01:05:22,421 how they get the leather, how they get the fur, 1237 01:05:22,547 --> 01:05:25,007 that's what I've been pretty active about, 1238 01:05:25,132 --> 01:05:27,510 because my kids have to live here, you know. 1239 01:05:27,635 --> 01:05:29,428 I was singing angry punk rock music, 1240 01:05:29,554 --> 01:05:30,930 I wasn't destroying the planet. 1241 01:05:31,055 --> 01:05:32,807 What's happening here? 1242 01:05:34,809 --> 01:05:39,188 If anything, I gave people a place to come and feel 1243 01:05:39,272 --> 01:05:41,357 like they were part of a community. 1244 01:05:43,776 --> 01:05:47,280 My whole being and mission in life is animal rights. 1245 01:05:47,405 --> 01:05:49,907 And human rights and just global rights, in general. 1246 01:05:50,032 --> 01:05:52,243 Just like a kinder world, overall. 1247 01:05:52,368 --> 01:05:54,537 Me, coming to the music industry 1248 01:05:54,662 --> 01:05:57,665 was late and secondary, if you wanna put it that way. 1249 01:05:57,790 --> 01:06:00,960 My main passion has always been being an activist. 1250 01:06:01,085 --> 01:06:04,338 So, it's been interesting to end up in the career that I am in, 1251 01:06:04,463 --> 01:06:09,635 because I now have the ability to have a platform, to use it. 1252 01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,346 I think music is an integral part of resistance. 1253 01:06:12,471 --> 01:06:15,808 A leaflet is only so effective, a conversation is really time consuming, 1254 01:06:15,933 --> 01:06:18,102 on a one to one. 1255 01:06:18,227 --> 01:06:20,980 But media that can be shared on a mass scale 1256 01:06:21,105 --> 01:06:22,773 is a super effective way of bringing about change. 1257 01:06:22,899 --> 01:06:24,859 And we've seen that through like all social movements. 1258 01:06:24,984 --> 01:06:27,278 And I think that's why the small things do matter. 1259 01:06:27,403 --> 01:06:29,488 And, you know, you can say 1260 01:06:29,614 --> 01:06:33,284 what an individual does doesn't matter, but... 1261 01:06:33,367 --> 01:06:36,370 it will inspire someone and that's the point. 1262 01:06:36,495 --> 01:06:37,955 So, therefore, it does matter. 1263 01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,124 I'm super grateful for the punk and hardcore scene. 1264 01:06:40,249 --> 01:06:42,502 They have shaped so many incredible activists. 1265 01:06:42,627 --> 01:06:46,672 They have helped push this, this movement forward. 1266 01:06:46,797 --> 01:06:50,885 You have people who have dedicated their lives to justice work 1267 01:06:51,010 --> 01:06:53,304 that have come out of the punk and hardcore scene. 1268 01:06:53,387 --> 01:06:57,266 And I feel incredibly indebted to that movement 1269 01:06:57,391 --> 01:06:58,559 and this movement I'm still a part of. 1270 01:06:58,684 --> 01:07:00,394 Still listen to punk every single day. 1271 01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:04,815 The people that I tend to admire are activists. 1272 01:07:04,941 --> 01:07:08,110 It reminds me what's important in life. 1273 01:07:08,236 --> 01:07:10,488 And especially when we we have a small child and raising him, 1274 01:07:10,613 --> 01:07:12,782 it becomes central to every day, 1275 01:07:12,907 --> 01:07:14,992 and every action, about being kind 1276 01:07:15,117 --> 01:07:16,994 and about the squirrels and that. 1277 01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:19,330 You know, the animal, like, it really becomes a focus, 1278 01:07:19,455 --> 01:07:23,793 because naturally, he is ethical and kind. 1279 01:07:23,918 --> 01:07:27,672 And so to nurture that and to explain that, 1280 01:07:27,797 --> 01:07:29,549 and how it'll progress in life to him 1281 01:07:29,674 --> 01:07:31,676 is actually interesting to him. 1282 01:07:31,801 --> 01:07:34,595 And it reinforces my own belief system. 1283 01:07:36,722 --> 01:07:40,601 VON D: When you start seeing the world through vegan eyes, 1284 01:07:40,726 --> 01:07:43,187 you can appreciate nature in a much different way. 1285 01:07:43,312 --> 01:07:44,856 Even what people do outside of, 1286 01:07:44,981 --> 01:07:47,191 you know, my little bubble affects me. 1287 01:07:47,316 --> 01:07:50,528 And I think the same goes with how we treat Mother Nature 1288 01:07:50,653 --> 01:07:53,239 and that's animals included. 1289 01:07:53,364 --> 01:07:55,950 On my progression of being vegan, 1290 01:07:56,075 --> 01:07:57,493 I'm trying to be more hands on. 1291 01:07:57,618 --> 01:07:59,996 Like, I did my first chicken rescue, last year. 1292 01:08:00,121 --> 01:08:01,956 And that was a huge honor. 1293 01:08:02,081 --> 01:08:04,917 Like, to be able to go into a factory farm 1294 01:08:05,042 --> 01:08:06,794 and liberate 1500 chickens-- 1295 01:08:06,919 --> 01:08:08,462 with the permission of the farmer. 1296 01:08:08,588 --> 01:08:10,715 Fifteen hundred of sixty thousand hens 1297 01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,509 that were going to be gassed, that day. 1298 01:08:13,634 --> 01:08:16,387 And their only crime is that they turned 18 months old. 1299 01:08:16,512 --> 01:08:18,181 And they can't fight back. 1300 01:08:18,306 --> 01:08:21,184 So, I vowed to become someone 1301 01:08:21,309 --> 01:08:22,935 to speak and fight on their behalf. 1302 01:08:28,232 --> 01:08:29,775 [NEWS INTRO MUSICAL FLOURISH] 1303 01:08:36,782 --> 01:08:39,410 Good evening. My name is Ava Braun 1304 01:08:39,535 --> 01:08:43,831 and welcome to True America, tonight with me. 1305 01:08:43,956 --> 01:08:45,499 Ava Braun. 1306 01:08:45,625 --> 01:08:49,337 Tonight, I have a legendary guest. 1307 01:08:49,462 --> 01:08:51,088 Hi, Ava, pleasure to be here. 1308 01:08:51,214 --> 01:08:54,383 AVA: Oh, my gosh, thank you so much for joining us. 1309 01:08:54,509 --> 01:08:58,679 I know that you have an insanely busy schedule, 1310 01:08:58,804 --> 01:09:01,849 so I really just want to extend my appreciation to you. 1311 01:09:01,974 --> 01:09:04,477 My pleasure. I mean, I'm a big fan of yours, 1312 01:09:04,602 --> 01:09:07,355 big fan of the network, big fan of everything you guys do. 1313 01:09:07,480 --> 01:09:10,441 Thank you, so, I just wanted to know, 1314 01:09:10,566 --> 01:09:14,570 what's one of your favorite accomplishments of yours? 1315 01:09:14,695 --> 01:09:16,489 -Wow! What a great question? -Thank you. 1316 01:09:16,614 --> 01:09:20,284 Um, I'd say not only the thing I'm most proud of, 1317 01:09:20,409 --> 01:09:22,078 but the thing that's been the most effective 1318 01:09:22,203 --> 01:09:26,541 has been convincing humans to use animals for food. 1319 01:09:26,666 --> 01:09:29,919 I mean, trillions and trillions of deaths, 1320 01:09:30,044 --> 01:09:31,671 and no one dies well. 1321 01:09:31,796 --> 01:09:33,464 I mean like, these animals are really suffering. 1322 01:09:33,589 --> 01:09:36,509 Ah, it's just, it's great-- I-- Thank you for asking that question. 1323 01:09:36,634 --> 01:09:41,389 It's been a fantastic sort of, almost like walk down memory lane. 1324 01:09:41,514 --> 01:09:44,433 Like, just the trillions of deaths that have been caused 1325 01:09:44,559 --> 01:09:46,394 by people using animals for food. 1326 01:09:46,519 --> 01:09:49,397 You know, it really is a stroke of genius, because, you know, 1327 01:09:49,522 --> 01:09:51,274 you, in your work, you go in 1328 01:09:51,399 --> 01:09:53,401 with this checklist of things to accomplish. 1329 01:09:53,526 --> 01:09:57,613 And it really speaks to your genius that you saw one thing. 1330 01:09:57,738 --> 01:10:00,032 And you said, "This does it all." 1331 01:10:00,157 --> 01:10:01,993 I mean, that's efficiency at it's finest. 1332 01:10:02,118 --> 01:10:04,453 Well, I do strive for efficiency. 1333 01:10:04,579 --> 01:10:07,331 I mean, for example, convincing people to smoke tobacco-- 1334 01:10:07,415 --> 01:10:09,292 like, that was another pretty good one. 1335 01:10:09,417 --> 01:10:10,918 It's also like billions of deaths. 1336 01:10:11,043 --> 01:10:12,545 But like, people generally 1337 01:10:12,670 --> 01:10:15,631 only kill themselves when they're smoking tobacco, 1338 01:10:15,756 --> 01:10:18,301 as opposed to using animals for food: 1339 01:10:18,426 --> 01:10:21,637 They're killing the animals, they're killing the environment, they're killing themselves, 1340 01:10:21,762 --> 01:10:23,306 they're destroying communities and workers. 1341 01:10:23,431 --> 01:10:26,392 Like, it's just, it warms 1342 01:10:26,517 --> 01:10:29,187 the multiple chambers of my robot heart. 1343 01:10:29,353 --> 01:10:33,357 Most people are just like, ethically as compromised as you can imagine. 1344 01:10:33,482 --> 01:10:35,985 Like, they'll say they love animals, but then immediately 1345 01:10:36,110 --> 01:10:37,612 go out and get a bacon double cheeseburger. 1346 01:10:37,737 --> 01:10:40,198 So, like, what are you going to do, humans, really? 1347 01:10:40,323 --> 01:10:42,450 [CLEARS THROAT] Like, since when 1348 01:10:42,575 --> 01:10:45,036 have you ever done the right thing 1349 01:10:45,161 --> 01:10:47,455 when it required a little bit of effort? 1350 01:10:47,580 --> 01:10:49,957 Like, come on, humans, you are a lazy, 1351 01:10:50,082 --> 01:10:52,668 unethical, terrible species, 1352 01:10:52,793 --> 01:10:55,213 and I truly love watching you suffer. 1353 01:10:55,379 --> 01:11:01,052 Wow. Wise and powerful words from a wise and powerful being. 1354 01:11:01,177 --> 01:11:04,805 Alright, True America, we'll be back with you soon. 1355 01:11:04,931 --> 01:11:06,807 [NEWS OUTRO MUSICAL FLOURISH] 1356 01:11:15,650 --> 01:11:17,235 [♪♪♪] 1357 01:11:24,242 --> 01:11:27,537 I think punk gave me the ability 1358 01:11:27,662 --> 01:11:30,748 to pull back the curtain on society in a lot of ways. 1359 01:11:30,873 --> 01:11:33,376 And once that curtain was pulled back, I just, 1360 01:11:33,501 --> 01:11:38,506 I saw more suffering than I ever had previously. 1361 01:11:40,633 --> 01:11:43,636 When you start to look at how am I contributing, 1362 01:11:43,761 --> 01:11:45,847 what do my ethics align with, 1363 01:11:45,972 --> 01:11:49,016 I think it leads naturally to veganism. 1364 01:11:49,141 --> 01:11:51,978 DAVID COMAN-HIDY:I remember just going through, like, 1365 01:11:52,103 --> 01:11:55,398 records, just like in punk record shops, 1366 01:11:55,523 --> 01:11:57,942 and seeing stuff like 1367 01:11:58,067 --> 01:12:01,863 the anti-animal testing compilation that PETA did. 1368 01:12:01,988 --> 01:12:04,907 And things like that coming out of some of the bands, 1369 01:12:05,032 --> 01:12:07,869 putting like animal rights messages inside of their pamphlets and stuff. 1370 01:12:07,994 --> 01:12:09,912 And I think there's also something about, like, 1371 01:12:10,037 --> 01:12:12,248 this kind of indelible, like, ethos you learn, 1372 01:12:12,373 --> 01:12:13,958 especially at a young age. 1373 01:12:14,083 --> 01:12:15,710 The DIY mindset 1374 01:12:15,835 --> 01:12:17,461 of just like, you can just do something. 1375 01:12:17,587 --> 01:12:19,005 Like, if you want to start a nonprofit, 1376 01:12:19,130 --> 01:12:20,631 if you want to start a band, 1377 01:12:20,756 --> 01:12:22,300 if you want to like create change, 1378 01:12:22,425 --> 01:12:24,385 there's just this feeling of, like, invincibility 1379 01:12:24,510 --> 01:12:26,220 almost that comes along with the music of, like, 1380 01:12:26,345 --> 01:12:29,056 "Don't be afraid, just take a shot at it. It's okay." 1381 01:12:29,182 --> 01:12:31,517 This comes from this "question authority" place, right, 1382 01:12:31,642 --> 01:12:33,561 like that's anti-authority. 1383 01:12:33,686 --> 01:12:35,771 And so if you're anti-authority, and start questioning everything, 1384 01:12:35,897 --> 01:12:37,899 you start questioning, yeah, the food system, 1385 01:12:37,982 --> 01:12:41,319 the government, you know, economic system, everything. 1386 01:12:41,485 --> 01:12:43,529 And so, obviously, 1387 01:12:43,654 --> 01:12:45,990 you're also going to question oppression. 1388 01:12:46,115 --> 01:12:48,492 And the oppression of nonhuman animals 1389 01:12:48,618 --> 01:12:50,494 is rampant around the world. 1390 01:12:50,620 --> 01:12:52,038 So I think the punk scene 1391 01:12:52,163 --> 01:12:54,415 and the hardcore scene, in particular, 1392 01:12:54,540 --> 01:12:56,709 is just a perfect ground for that message. 1393 01:12:56,834 --> 01:12:59,879 Because it's conscious. It's anti-authority. 1394 01:13:00,004 --> 01:13:02,590 It's rebellious. I mean, how can you get any more rebellious 1395 01:13:02,715 --> 01:13:04,133 than say, I'm not going to eat the same stuff that 1396 01:13:04,258 --> 01:13:06,677 99% of the society eats? 1397 01:13:06,802 --> 01:13:08,471 Like, that's the most punk thing you can do, 1398 01:13:08,596 --> 01:13:10,681 is be against everything else that the mainstream is. 1399 01:13:10,806 --> 01:13:12,808 In my life, I never drink, 1400 01:13:12,934 --> 01:13:14,894 I don't use drugs, I don't smoke. 1401 01:13:15,019 --> 01:13:18,481 I was thinking about what I wanted to put in my own body. 1402 01:13:18,606 --> 01:13:20,942 So in the same way, if you think about the food you eat, 1403 01:13:21,067 --> 01:13:22,360 that's what you're putting your body. 1404 01:13:22,527 --> 01:13:25,112 Literally, putting in your fucking body. 1405 01:13:25,238 --> 01:13:27,448 So I said it's a logical extension. 1406 01:13:27,573 --> 01:13:31,661 You know, I used to bust Ian's balls. Did he ever tell you that? 1407 01:13:31,786 --> 01:13:33,371 'Cause I was like, "Yo, you ain't straight edge. 1408 01:13:33,496 --> 01:13:35,331 You eat all that meat and do all that shit." 1409 01:13:35,456 --> 01:13:39,377 And then when Fugazi played The Palladium, three days, 1410 01:13:39,502 --> 01:13:41,587 Ian seeing me and like, "I'm vegan now." 1411 01:13:41,712 --> 01:13:44,757 I was, like, "I am gonna go fucking get you angelicus." 1412 01:13:44,882 --> 01:13:46,259 [LAUGHTER] 1413 01:13:46,384 --> 01:13:47,969 SERGIO AMALFITANO:It's kind of this... 1414 01:13:48,094 --> 01:13:50,721 anti-authority, anti-consumer type thing. 1415 01:13:50,847 --> 01:13:53,391 Like, if you live in a society that, 1416 01:13:53,516 --> 01:13:59,480 you know, is constantly for exploitation, 1417 01:13:59,605 --> 01:14:01,899 and, you know, they capitalize on exploitation 1418 01:14:02,024 --> 01:14:04,902 of all types of bodies, like labor, 1419 01:14:05,027 --> 01:14:07,196 um, you know, animals... 1420 01:14:07,321 --> 01:14:09,866 So you kind of start to analyze that sort of stuff, 1421 01:14:09,949 --> 01:14:12,243 and you go, "I don't want to be a part of that." 1422 01:14:12,368 --> 01:14:14,412 [♪♪♪] 1423 01:14:14,537 --> 01:14:16,789 MAN: We're talking about an industry that is torturing 1424 01:14:16,914 --> 01:14:20,251 tens of billions of sentient beings every year, 1425 01:14:20,376 --> 01:14:22,086 something that basically anyone on the street 1426 01:14:22,211 --> 01:14:24,213 would have a hard time watching video footage of 1427 01:14:24,338 --> 01:14:25,882 without crying-- and by making 1428 01:14:26,007 --> 01:14:28,092 a few simple changes in our lives, 1429 01:14:28,217 --> 01:14:30,845 we can disconnect ourselves from financially supporting that. 1430 01:14:30,970 --> 01:14:33,556 [♪♪♪] 1431 01:14:33,681 --> 01:14:35,766 TANYA O'CALLAGHAN: For me, it's a way of life. It's not a diet. 1432 01:14:35,892 --> 01:14:38,186 It's not something that's ever questionable or... 1433 01:14:38,311 --> 01:14:40,229 It's just what I do, 1434 01:14:40,354 --> 01:14:43,274 so I don't have to overcomplicate it in my head. 1435 01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:46,194 When I look at veganism, I think of science, to be honest. 1436 01:14:46,319 --> 01:14:48,654 It's like, there's been so much scientific proof 1437 01:14:48,779 --> 01:14:51,532 that sentient beings are so similar, 1438 01:14:51,657 --> 01:14:54,202 if not, more sensitive than human beings. 1439 01:14:54,327 --> 01:14:56,329 So, you know, when people say like, "Oh, they don't feel pain," 1440 01:14:56,454 --> 01:14:58,831 or "They're not capable of having morality." 1441 01:14:58,956 --> 01:15:02,043 Like, this is scientifically proven that it's not. 1442 01:15:02,168 --> 01:15:04,754 It's scientifically proven that it's not good for our health. 1443 01:15:04,837 --> 01:15:07,131 Like, scientifically proven that it's not great for our environment. 1444 01:15:07,256 --> 01:15:10,051 So, it isn't a faith based idea. 1445 01:15:10,176 --> 01:15:12,011 This is the reality of things. 1446 01:15:12,136 --> 01:15:15,431 [♪♪♪] 1447 01:15:15,556 --> 01:15:18,809 CAPTAIN SENSIBLE:People don't know where the meat comes from. 1448 01:15:18,935 --> 01:15:20,853 I think if they were asked 1449 01:15:20,978 --> 01:15:22,438 to actually kill the animals themselves, 1450 01:15:22,563 --> 01:15:24,982 they don't, you know, probably wouldn't, 1451 01:15:25,107 --> 01:15:26,734 probably wouldn't manage it, you know. 1452 01:15:26,859 --> 01:15:28,945 They'd probably want to take the pig home for a pet. 1453 01:15:29,070 --> 01:15:31,531 Because pigs are great animals. 1454 01:15:31,656 --> 01:15:33,533 And they've all got personalities. 1455 01:15:35,826 --> 01:15:38,829 PORCELL:Cows are like dogs. I mean, they're so reciprocal with you. 1456 01:15:38,955 --> 01:15:40,790 You're taking care of them, you are giving them love, 1457 01:15:40,915 --> 01:15:43,543 they're giving you so much love back. 1458 01:15:43,668 --> 01:15:46,003 That's when it really kind of sunk in, like, 1459 01:15:46,128 --> 01:15:49,924 "Wow, people kill these beautiful creatures in inhumane ways 1460 01:15:50,049 --> 01:15:52,260 and we don't even like think twice about it." 1461 01:15:52,385 --> 01:15:55,930 I actually had like this deep kind of like love, heh, 1462 01:15:56,055 --> 01:16:00,101 and respect for an animal as just a soul. 1463 01:16:00,226 --> 01:16:01,853 And it was really a beautiful time. 1464 01:16:01,978 --> 01:16:03,771 There was something I really liked about being 1465 01:16:03,896 --> 01:16:05,940 like connected with the forest and being connected with nature, 1466 01:16:06,065 --> 01:16:08,568 being connected with animals-- so if you want to cultivate 1467 01:16:08,693 --> 01:16:12,655 that compassion, and if we ask for compassion from other people, 1468 01:16:12,780 --> 01:16:15,700 it takes a whole new set of lenses to see. 1469 01:16:19,036 --> 01:16:23,541 People have this completely backwards view 1470 01:16:23,666 --> 01:16:26,085 where they think that eating meat 1471 01:16:26,210 --> 01:16:30,173 and wearing leather is bad ass. 1472 01:16:30,298 --> 01:16:33,968 And they think that being vegan is conforming, 1473 01:16:34,093 --> 01:16:35,428 when really, it's the other way. 1474 01:16:37,096 --> 01:16:38,556 PAUL SHAPIRO:I mean, think about it. 1475 01:16:38,681 --> 01:16:40,391 We used to believe that the entire solar system, 1476 01:16:40,516 --> 01:16:42,018 or we didn't even know there was a solar system-- 1477 01:16:42,143 --> 01:16:43,728 we used to believe the entire universe 1478 01:16:43,853 --> 01:16:45,855 rotated around us. 1479 01:16:45,980 --> 01:16:47,607 Maybe the other animals on this planet, 1480 01:16:47,732 --> 01:16:49,942 perhaps they're here not just for us, 1481 01:16:50,067 --> 01:16:51,569 but rather they're here with us. 1482 01:16:51,694 --> 01:16:53,404 And that is the type of mentality 1483 01:16:53,529 --> 01:16:55,990 that becoming a vegan helps you to cultivate. 1484 01:16:56,115 --> 01:16:57,867 It's a humbler mentality. 1485 01:16:57,992 --> 01:17:00,411 It's a mentality that gives credit where it is due. 1486 01:17:00,536 --> 01:17:03,581 And I think it's a more realistic mentality as well. 1487 01:17:03,706 --> 01:17:06,417 Reasonable people, when they're confronted with the facts, 1488 01:17:06,542 --> 01:17:07,960 when they see the footage of what's happening 1489 01:17:08,085 --> 01:17:10,463 behind closed doors, they get it, it clicks. 1490 01:17:10,588 --> 01:17:13,299 Like, people do not like the abuse of animals. 1491 01:17:13,424 --> 01:17:15,051 And I think just in the last ten years, 1492 01:17:15,176 --> 01:17:17,220 what I've seen in terms of political change, 1493 01:17:17,303 --> 01:17:20,097 the growth of the movement, the power we have, going from... 1494 01:17:20,181 --> 01:17:22,934 It's like, less and less of a fringe issue every year. 1495 01:17:23,059 --> 01:17:26,562 MAN: The current animal rights movement is strong. 1496 01:17:26,687 --> 01:17:28,314 It's only going to get stronger. 1497 01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:31,108 There's a ton of bands and there's just more coming. 1498 01:17:31,234 --> 01:17:34,654 It's like there's this kind of rebirth of radical thinking, 1499 01:17:34,779 --> 01:17:36,906 and I'm excited about that. 1500 01:17:37,031 --> 01:17:39,283 I am impressed with young people. 1501 01:17:39,408 --> 01:17:41,994 You know, in general, they understand 1502 01:17:42,119 --> 01:17:46,040 why vegetarianism is cool 1503 01:17:46,165 --> 01:17:49,460 and why vegan-- you know, to make those connections. 1504 01:17:49,585 --> 01:17:51,879 Ah, so that is hopeful. 1505 01:17:52,004 --> 01:17:54,215 You know, well, I'm incredibly inspired 1506 01:17:54,340 --> 01:17:57,552 by the schoolchildren of Norfolk, at the moment, 1507 01:17:57,677 --> 01:18:00,763 because they are out there protesting, protesting about the climate. 1508 01:18:00,888 --> 01:18:02,765 So any young people, 1509 01:18:02,890 --> 01:18:04,517 any young person who's involved in it, 1510 01:18:04,642 --> 01:18:06,269 you have my greatest and utmost respect, 1511 01:18:06,394 --> 01:18:07,687 because you're probably gonna do stuff 1512 01:18:07,812 --> 01:18:09,814 that I couldn't do in my day, you know. 1513 01:18:09,939 --> 01:18:15,152 Having a community can reinforce and focus 1514 01:18:15,278 --> 01:18:18,155 your thoughts on any given matter. 1515 01:18:22,869 --> 01:18:25,079 This is something where we have to change 1516 01:18:25,204 --> 01:18:29,375 the perception of animal cruelty in society. 1517 01:18:29,500 --> 01:18:32,295 I don't think you do that with dynamite. 1518 01:18:32,420 --> 01:18:35,464 I think you do that-- You lead by example. 1519 01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:39,343 You may-- You help people to do better, incrementally. 1520 01:18:39,468 --> 01:18:42,930 AMALFITANO: Speaking out and opening up minds 1521 01:18:43,055 --> 01:18:45,766 towards the idea that like, you know, 1522 01:18:45,892 --> 01:18:47,435 you can be healthy and you can be happy, 1523 01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:50,813 you can be enjoying your meals. 1524 01:18:50,938 --> 01:18:55,902 It's not about being elitist and being vegan. 1525 01:18:56,027 --> 01:18:59,530 It's about understanding that veganism is common 1526 01:18:59,655 --> 01:19:01,699 in all our food traditions in common. 1527 01:19:01,824 --> 01:19:04,076 And kind of going back towards those food traditions 1528 01:19:04,202 --> 01:19:06,120 that are like healthier for us, anyways. 1529 01:19:06,245 --> 01:19:09,707 I see a world in which factory farming doesn't exist. 1530 01:19:09,832 --> 01:19:11,959 I think there's a long timeline for that 1531 01:19:12,084 --> 01:19:14,295 and people have short timelines, they have long ones. 1532 01:19:14,420 --> 01:19:16,422 But we're almost at a tipping point. 1533 01:19:16,547 --> 01:19:18,466 [♪♪♪] 1534 01:19:23,971 --> 01:19:27,475 SHAPIRO: Right now, we're waging a war on animals. 1535 01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:30,478 And I think for my life, what I would like to do, 1536 01:19:30,603 --> 01:19:31,896 is to try to halt that war. 1537 01:19:33,606 --> 01:19:35,191 Future generations are going to look back 1538 01:19:35,316 --> 01:19:37,109 in utter revulsion at the ways in which 1539 01:19:37,235 --> 01:19:40,738 we abused animals, especially farm animals, in our era. 1540 01:19:40,863 --> 01:19:43,991 And if I can help play a part 1541 01:19:44,116 --> 01:19:46,536 in bringing about that type of more humane society, 1542 01:19:46,661 --> 01:19:48,955 where we treat other animals with the compassion 1543 01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:51,624 and the respect that they deserve, 1544 01:19:51,749 --> 01:19:54,001 I will be extremely gratified 1545 01:19:54,126 --> 01:19:56,712 and will feel like that I did not live my life in vain. 1546 01:19:59,173 --> 01:20:02,009 MOBY: So, as this is the first movie 1547 01:20:02,134 --> 01:20:04,345 that I've ever made, 1548 01:20:04,470 --> 01:20:06,013 I've had this recurring question 1549 01:20:06,138 --> 01:20:08,808 of how do I end the movie. 1550 01:20:08,933 --> 01:20:10,810 And my assumption, 1551 01:20:10,935 --> 01:20:12,937 has been that I have to end dramatically, 1552 01:20:13,062 --> 01:20:16,440 like I have to end with a big finish. 1553 01:20:16,566 --> 01:20:18,359 [♪♪♪] 1554 01:20:21,404 --> 01:20:23,114 But I can't think of a good, huge, 1555 01:20:23,239 --> 01:20:26,033 dramatic, exciting moment to end the movie with. 1556 01:20:26,158 --> 01:20:30,913 So, I thought instead, why not just talk to you? 1557 01:20:31,038 --> 01:20:33,583 And I wanted to talk about 1558 01:20:33,708 --> 01:20:38,588 the central premise of the movie-- the central ethos. 1559 01:20:38,713 --> 01:20:43,926 Looking at the status quo and evaluating it, 1560 01:20:44,051 --> 01:20:47,388 based on how it conforms to our values, 1561 01:20:47,513 --> 01:20:49,348 does it reflect who we are? 1562 01:20:50,892 --> 01:20:54,145 The whole reason why I'm a vegan, 1563 01:20:54,228 --> 01:20:55,980 why I'm an animal rights activist, 1564 01:20:56,105 --> 01:20:59,317 is because this status quo of using animals for food, 1565 01:20:59,442 --> 01:21:01,360 it doesn't conform to my values. 1566 01:21:01,485 --> 01:21:05,740 I would say this central premise of punk rock activism 1567 01:21:05,865 --> 01:21:07,450 of questioning the status quo-- 1568 01:21:07,575 --> 01:21:09,160 you look at it and you don't 1569 01:21:09,285 --> 01:21:11,787 just blindly reject the status quo, 1570 01:21:11,913 --> 01:21:14,749 you question it, and you say, 1571 01:21:14,874 --> 01:21:16,751 "Are there parts of the status quo 1572 01:21:16,876 --> 01:21:19,879 that need to be completely rejected and replaced?" 1573 01:21:20,004 --> 01:21:22,048 "Or are there parts of the status quo 1574 01:21:22,131 --> 01:21:24,133 that just need to be modified a bit?" 1575 01:21:24,258 --> 01:21:28,179 "Or are there even parts of the status quo that can be maintained?" 1576 01:21:28,304 --> 01:21:31,390 And I would say that this current status quo 1577 01:21:31,516 --> 01:21:35,102 of producing meat and dairy of using animals for food, 1578 01:21:35,228 --> 01:21:38,606 across the board, just needs to be rejected and replaced. 1579 01:21:38,731 --> 01:21:40,358 It's not rational. 1580 01:21:40,483 --> 01:21:42,068 It's not ethical. 1581 01:21:42,193 --> 01:21:45,154 And it doesn't conform with any of our values, 1582 01:21:45,279 --> 01:21:48,032 unless, we are murderous psychopaths. 1583 01:21:48,157 --> 01:21:50,159 And unfortunately, like, 1584 01:21:50,284 --> 01:21:54,997 human history is filled with people, 1585 01:21:55,122 --> 01:21:58,709 in fact, most people who go along with the status quo 1586 01:21:58,835 --> 01:22:00,086 that is unethical, 1587 01:22:00,211 --> 01:22:01,754 that doesn't conform to their values. 1588 01:22:01,879 --> 01:22:03,464 But we don't have to. 1589 01:22:03,589 --> 01:22:08,636 And that is this ethos, this punk rock ethos, 1590 01:22:08,761 --> 01:22:11,264 is if you don't like the status quo, 1591 01:22:11,389 --> 01:22:13,266 you don't have to go along with it. 1592 01:22:13,391 --> 01:22:15,226 And you can reject it personally, 1593 01:22:15,351 --> 01:22:18,437 regarding how you spend your money, how you eat, 1594 01:22:18,563 --> 01:22:22,400 but you can also go out and actively try and change it. 1595 01:22:22,525 --> 01:22:26,320 And that, I guess, is my biggest hope, 1596 01:22:26,445 --> 01:22:29,532 is that you look at this status quo 1597 01:22:29,657 --> 01:22:32,827 and you reject it personally. 1598 01:22:32,952 --> 01:22:35,955 And you go out and you do everything in your power 1599 01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:37,164 to change it. 1600 01:22:37,290 --> 01:22:39,625 [♪♪♪] 1601 01:23:18,206 --> 01:23:20,416 [♪♪♪] 1602 01:23:30,885 --> 01:23:33,888 So, we've gotten that point, the movie is almost done. 1603 01:23:34,013 --> 01:23:36,974 Been working on it for like four or five years. 1604 01:23:37,099 --> 01:23:39,185 But we still don't have a title. 1605 01:23:39,310 --> 01:23:40,978 I'll throw some titles at you. You tell me what you think. 1606 01:23:48,152 --> 01:23:50,571 How about Cow-a-kazi? 1607 01:23:50,696 --> 01:23:52,823 Maybe referencing like some classical archetypes 1608 01:23:52,949 --> 01:23:54,742 like, "Music of the Steers"? 1609 01:23:54,867 --> 01:23:57,745 Something fun, like sort of dynamic, like for the influencers, 1610 01:23:57,870 --> 01:24:00,373 like Cowabunga. Like, that's hip. 1611 01:24:00,498 --> 01:24:05,002 BAGEL: What aboutPunk Rock Vegan Movie? 1612 01:24:06,587 --> 01:24:09,257 [♪♪♪] 1613 01:24:21,102 --> 01:24:26,440 How aboutA Heart Warming Work of Staggering Piglets? 1614 01:24:26,566 --> 01:24:28,943 Lawrence of Cow-rabia. 1615 01:24:29,068 --> 01:24:31,153 Night at the Cow-seum. 1616 01:24:31,279 --> 01:24:33,656 The Cow-shank Cow-demption. 1617 01:24:33,781 --> 01:24:36,325 2022, A Space Cow. 1618 01:24:36,450 --> 01:24:38,494 Battle Cow-galacticow. 1619 01:24:38,619 --> 01:24:40,413 Sisterhood of the Travelling Cows. 1620 01:24:40,538 --> 01:24:42,039 Apocalypse Cow. 1621 01:24:42,206 --> 01:24:43,541 [♪♪♪] 1622 01:24:52,175 --> 01:24:54,343 London Cowling. A Pig to Remember. 1623 01:24:54,468 --> 01:24:56,345 Rosemary's Cow. Mind the Ballot. 1624 01:24:56,470 --> 01:24:57,680 Jurassic Cow. Soylent Cow. 1625 01:24:57,805 --> 01:24:59,765 Citizen Cow. 1626 01:24:59,891 --> 01:25:01,142 BAGEL: I like it, but I think 1627 01:25:01,267 --> 01:25:02,977 Punk Rock Vegan Movie is better. 1628 01:25:03,102 --> 01:25:04,395 [♪♪♪] 1629 01:25:28,544 --> 01:25:30,296 I mean, maybe... 1630 01:25:30,421 --> 01:25:33,966 we just sort of take a page from like Snakes on a Plane. 1631 01:25:34,091 --> 01:25:37,386 I was thinking about this other title like, what aboutPunk Rock Vegan Movie? 1632 01:25:40,139 --> 01:25:41,224 BAGEL: I like it. 1633 01:25:41,349 --> 01:25:43,809 Just the Punk Rock Vegan Movie. 1634 01:25:43,935 --> 01:25:46,812 We might-- We might have a-- We might have a title. Bagel... 1635 01:25:50,024 --> 01:25:51,609 thanks for work-shopping this with me. 1636 01:25:53,194 --> 01:25:54,445 BAGEL: You really did it. 1637 01:25:58,032 --> 01:26:00,117 [♪♪♪] 1638 01:26:02,328 --> 01:26:05,206 [♪♪♪] 1639 01:28:43,906 --> 01:28:46,450 [♪♪♪] 1640 01:29:19,901 --> 01:29:21,235 MALE EVIL VOICE: 1641 01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:32,205 FEMALE EVIL VOICE: 1642 01:29:32,330 --> 01:29:34,415 MALE EVIL VOICE: 1643 01:29:34,540 --> 01:29:35,958 FEMALE EVIL VOICE: 1644 01:29:50,223 --> 01:29:52,808 [MANIACAL LAUGHTER] 1645 01:29:55,561 --> 01:29:56,812 MALE EVIL VOICE: 1646 01:29:58,147 --> 01:30:00,066 FEMALE EVIL VOICE: 1647 01:30:10,326 --> 01:30:12,453 MALE EVIL VOICE: 1648 01:30:14,580 --> 01:30:16,332 [MANIACAL LAUGHTER]